Isn't it about time we got rid of homework, at least for the under 14s?

[Solopower1]

Just heard on the radio (PM Programme, Radio 4) that there are moves afoot to stop setting HW in France. They did this years ago in Spain. Didn't catch any more details (eg what age children) but they are considering lengthening the school day by half an hour so that the kids can do their HW before they go home.

Apparently there is no research that proves that doing HW benefits a child! (Which isn't to say that it doesn't, of course, but still).

I think it would be a great idea to abolish homework, at least for those under 14. It has always been a huge burden in our household, and caused so much tension. Plus the school day is really short. In Scotland there are no classes on a Friday afternoon - not even for sixth formers.

It wouldn't stop parents from going over their kids' HW if they wanted to, nor would it prevent anyone from doing any amount of extra research. What it would do, however, is make things just that little bit more equal. It's not fair, imo, that children from disadvantaged backgrounds who get no help (or might not even have anywhere to do their HW), are still expected to produce the same quality of work as a child whose parent does it for him/her.

What do other people think?

APMF that is too long IMO. Does he do any hobbies in the evenings? DS1 (Year 9) gets home from school at 4.30 and has football training 4 nights a week. He has to have dinner plus a bit of downtime.

apmf are you sure it's meant to take that long and that your DS isn't taking too much time over it?

DS is year 9 at one of the most selective schools in the country and gets less than half that.

Russell Brand Prospero now on profile. Picture not great but you get the general effect.

He has a drums lesson once a week and he goes to an athletics club once a week. He also attends the after school rugby club. So, no, he isn't being crushed by homework :)

I think how much homework is 'good' depends on the child. If the child is stressed then obviously it is too much. Mine still manages the time to do his sports stuff and to play his pc games online with his mates.

He sounds really busy APMF. I wouldn't be happy about that amount of homework though.

Well, as I've said, it depends on the child. Mine gets the homework done, gets top marks for them AND still has time for his non-academic activities.

You are very lucky then APMF.

PS If you thought that is a busy schedule, I left out the weekly violin and piano lessons plus the afterschool orchestra practice sessions :)

Different parents have different ideas as to what is 'normal'.

Any family fun to be had APMF?

Weekends typically consist of swimming, long walks and/or bicycle rides. Evenings tend to consist of family board games after which we break for Me Time. PC games or Skype Chat for the kids and tv and wine for the adults :)

Like I said, we all have different ideas as to what is 'normal'. Our 'normal' works for us and for the kids that mine go to school with.

Sounds like you and your DC are living the idyll APMF. DS1 is 13 and starting to opt out of being seen with the family.

I vote for an extra hour of school, and no homework.....

We have a middling situation at the dds' state primary. I can see how a bit of homework for Y4 dd helps prepare for the coming years' discipline - but thankfully KS1 homework is not compulsory at our school. Which works well enough: kids like dd2 (who want to be 'like my big sister') enjoy doing it, others who are simply not ready and challenged enough by reading 4-5 times per week don't do it.

As for IT work being given and an automatic assumption being made that kids have access to a computer at home : we have an IT 'suite' and an IT club for those kids who don't. They get to do their homework there.

APMF - do your children ever get a choice in what they do? Have they ever refused to do some of these activities and homework? Not being critical, I am just interested to know whether they know they have a choice and choose to do them.

Thanks, Somme and Bonsoir - I agree that the situation is different, but if they are trying to make the teachers more accountable for their children's progress, I am sorry that they have not learnt from our mistakes.

Holding the teachers to account for factors that are entirely outside their control is not going to work in France, any more than it does here. You'll be having League tables next.

If it ain't broke ...

Plus why are they getting rid of the system of repeating a class if you don't pass the end of year exams? I thought that was quite good. After all, some kids are better off at their level, rather than with children who just happen to be born within the same 12 months.

If you look at most primary school websites these days they seem to have a

homework policy-department education reccomend up to an hour keystage 1-not sure about juniors as not reached that stage yet.

Then theres the dreaded parent/school contract agreement-again unsure how strictly schools enforce that.

We had reception from very 1st term of reception

2sounds a week
2fastwords
sliding sounds
1-2reading books.

never had an art/craft related projects shame as my dd would love that.

year 1-10spellings once a week-test on friday
reading books 2-3 a week
1 numeracy peice once a week given out friday to be handed back in wed.
some phonics.

god homework over summer-faith school.

year 2
spellings
books
numeracy.

but last year or so its been really hard

we have had a few tears.

dd 6 -her school do no after school clubs so anything extra curricular she does evenings.

rainbows now 6-7-shes far too tired after so try get done before.

gym 4.45-5.45 again by time she gets home has tea its struggle.

cheerleading friday nite 5.30-6.30-we do no homework fridays.

we try do numercacy over weekend.
practice spellings most days.
we supost to read nightly and write in reading diary

other week got pulled into class as dd had done maths homework wrong. teacher so gerous is giving us another chance so had 2lots numeracy that weekend. Also got told off for reading too much of a book but some nights can read more and last night couldent fit it in.

dd does get upset and gets very tired.

i hear its worse at juniors they have writing and times tables added, not sure about projects.

dds freind goes to infant school with no homework policy.
Did think maybe as they infants they not so stressed about sats.
But i know another infants who gets more homework than we do and is coaching year 2 for sats already.

Im finding spellings waste of time.
some maths is ok, others are frankly rubbish.

forgot to say im jealous of year 5 who can do power point I still struggle with it.

We have computer /internet at home-some schools even set online homework.

but printers been broken for last year need to fix.

but im not anti education.

we go libary regular.
took them museums and days out in holidays-their school only does 1trip a year.

I like her having extra curricular activities and shes looking forward to when she can start music instruments.

she loves crafts-thankfully libary do free crafts and local church does cheap messy play.

I think educations about balance and if homework

causes stress and upset to child
it infinges heavily on hobbies they enjoy or family life -they need some downtime before bed.

I do think theres benefit to a small amount in summer hols as lot can be forgotton in that time.

I have 3kids just 1school age do wonder how will fit all 3 in.
Hubby works lots evenings and weekends so nearly always down to me.

recently dd2 had 3rd birthday party. his mum brought older sibling same year as my eldest year2-she goes to whats considered to be one of the best more academic primaries in the area.
When I saw how much she has to do. The mum said its really hard so whenever we go anywhere like party we take homework with us.
I then managed to coax her away form it and she went to play with softplay with other kids. I only saw fraction if it but its was least double what our school gets and i moan ours does too much.

can i ask, generally, what the repercussions are (actual disciplinary actions, i mean, not the intangible things) at your school for kids who don't do their homework?

About repercussions:

Here's one that works EVERY TIME for teenage boys:

If you don't do your HW I will come and wait outside your school until you finish your classes, and walk you home. I shall be wearing my green trousers.

Never fails.

Just to add a voice of dissent. I am amazed that people are against homework. I am amazed at an empty claim that 'research' has shown that homework doesn't benefit education. I am a researcher. Show me this research. What kind of homework? What kind of education?

Britain is so low in what it achieves in educating its population among developed countries. And yet no lessons are learned.

A lot of kids need maths practice to master number bonds, or lots of writing to master composition. This is homework. I can't start to imagine how you can go without homework. In my country of origin, school finishes around 14.00, and there is always about 1 h of homework total from a mix of subjects (slowly increasing from 30 min to about 2 h over the years in school). Kids do lots of afterschool clubs, many of which are subsidized by the government.

People who don't have good visual memory or working memory rely on homework for slowly memorising numer bonds, for instance..

My son's school sends 10 min homework a week and it is completely useless. If it weren't for me giving him homework to work more through his number bonds, he would have fallen back for nothing. He is considered a very good mathematician in his school. This is ludicrous - many more would be, were they asked to do additions extra 20 min a day....

Haven't read whole thread but did hear homework piece on PM. The British teacher (from a public school?) defending it stated that virtually all primary aged children have computers. I can't remember the exact wording but I'm pretty sure it wasn't "access to computers", the implication was that they all have them at home There was also some comment about parental input (ie that some parents give a lot more time & attention to helping their kids than others) being irrelevant, as the homework was for the children to do.

He sounded very smug & made me cross.

My kids, at primary school between 1987 & 2004, had virtually no homework apart from reading in KS1 & weekly spellings in KS2, but still all passed the grammar school exam, all got good GCSE & A Level results, & all went to RG universities.

What has changed that primary school homework is now so essential?

You have just reminded me of something, Ponders. My older children were at school (primary and secondary) between 1982 and 1998, and like yours, had very little homework and did very well. The first change I noticed was in the 1990s, when my sisters' children started school. Suddenly everything was very tense and competitive. Suddenly parents were pressurising their kids and nagging their children to do their HW and eventually, the kids rebelled, as you would.

Was it the introduction of the League tables or was it SATs?

My youngest, now, dragging his weary way through his Highers (we're in Scotland), in one of the state schools at the top of the local league tables, having had the dubious benefit great good fortune to have me nagging, threatening, bullying, cajoling gently reminding him to do his homework, is underperforming quite spectacularly.

What happened? Where did I go wrong?

According to the Times today in 1997 only half of primary schools had homework and homework policies. Certainly when I started teaching they didn't. They got it because of parents like olguis- there are lots of them around.

Olguis, I agree with you.

I think if schools finished at 14.00 Homework would be less of an issue then. DS1 gets home from school at 16.30 and then has to start. An hour later if there is an after school club.

The National Curriculum & SATs & league tables all contributed I think, Solo

I can't remember exactly what happened when, but I know a lot of fun extra-curricular stuff (music, crafts etc) just stopped, because teachers had so much more admin to do & just didn't have the time any more

Measured performance appears to be better now but at what cost?