My unreserved apologies

[jabed]

It seems I have upset MN posters.

I am sorry if you have been upset by me. I apologise.

I wont do it again.

Jabed

But do you understand WHY your comments are offensive?

I dont find Jabeds comments offensive. I find them completely silly - i think he is a troll.

He tries to get attention by making "controversial" statements and is generally flirting with the entire forum.

"You ladies". Hmmm

I dont believe you are a teacher as your ability to communicate ideas/opinions to large audience seems somewhat poor.

You seem to have too much time on your hands to post during school time.

Time for name change and adopting new personality I'd say.

You have offended me pianomania.

However I wont report it or complain. :)

Does it matter Titchy?

I know what MN told me. That is enough for me.

I work part time. Three days a week. Today is a day off.

I will not be changing my name.

I have apologised. I see no reason for you to be ungracious about that.

Pax.

"You ladies". Hmmm

I didnt say that on this thread but FYI from wiki:

The word lady is a polite term for a woman, specifically the female equivalent to, or spouse of, a lord or gentleman, and in many contexts a term for any adult woman. Once relating specifically to women of high social class or status, over the last 300 years it has spread to embrace all adult women.

'FYI from Wiki'... there speaks a true scholar. FYI,MA!

I don't know why you've posted this in Education.

Your comments about why you don't know why people have children if they then farm them out are what upset people. As you then, on questioning, revealed that you can afford children as you didn't become a parent until you were in your 50s, your views are irrelevant to 90% of Mnetters.

Just remember that your experience of parenthood is pretty unique when you post.

Jabed - this is like a small child's apolgy though - you are doing it because you have been told to not because you feel you have anything to apologise for.

FWIW we can be as ungracious as we like - you have been offensive, condescending and generally offensive this afternoon.

meant to say contradictory, condescending and generally offensive. Suspect the subconscious repetition of 'offensive' was to underline my feelings.....

Pianomama - doh! Of course he's a troll - I bet he's from that freaky website of squaddies or whoever who's sole aim is to infiltrate MN. can't believe I fell for it!

If my child said 'it seems I have upset you Mummy, if you have been upset by me [lovely use of the passive there!] I apologize', I would not consider it a heartfelt apology!

Jabed isn't from arrse. He's been around ages. Arrse only appeared when mners linked their site from here. Quite recent. Jabed preceded arrse by months, if not a good year.

No idea what the bunfight was about though.

I agree with madwomanintheattick. Jabed posted helpful comments for me and I dont thnk he is an arrse. I thought he set off the SN brigade. That seems to be a no PC topic here. You cant say anything without setting them off.

Peoploe who get upset just need therapy and a thicker skin. We all know parents who work do best for their children and the chidlren of housewives have the worst outcomes of any in the UK so if Jabed things otherwise he is wrong. Also children of younger parents aer healthier so anyone over 50 as a parent male or female may not be the best thing but we all make the best of what we have although I would advise all housewives to work if they want to do best for their children. There endeth my lesson.

hatsbatsy, if jabed has apologised he has done so off his own back. If he had one of those mn e mails, it didnt tell him to apologise. I know I have had one before too. It just told him to watch how he expressed his views because he was too strong. If it was like mine they also said they had no problem with it, just the tone.

That's lovely sohia. for future reference, I am the sn brigade. 'Them' is a great example of othering.

I have no idea what jabbed said or who he upset, or why. But he isn't a squaddie. The idea is frankly risible.

Xenia,

Just out of interest, is there data on the educational outcomes for children whose mothers are SAHM in the pre-school years (or even in the first couple of years of school) vs those who remain at home throughout their child's time at school?

It's just that I know very many of my - Cambridge - contemporaries, very intelligent women with highly successful children, who stayed at home until their children started school, then returned to work either gradually or fully at that point. As I say, all the children have been extremely successful - more so than those from other similar families where the mother has worked throughout. I believe that the cohort of women who stay at home during the early years is very different - in nature, age, education, previous experience etc - from the cohort who stay at home long term throughout their child's school life.

Link to any statistical reports would be very useful, as obviously I am talking about a very specific group of people I know, rather than looking at a statistically significant sample...

(Oh, and of course I mean 'actual success' in the children, not 'school attended giving likelihood of success' - I'm talking A-levels, universities attended, degree classes obtained etc)

I never thought I'd say that, but OMG.
I believe it has been suggested already on some other thread that jabed and Xenia might be the same person in RL.
I wonder.

OMG.

Not the Wiki Ladies thing again jabed.

Why did you spend your whole day off on MN?

I would have to look it up again. (a) family income often determines child success - eg if the mother pays school fees then the child is in an elite 8% who win 50% of good university places, 73% of high court judges etc etc (b) housewives tend to breed housewives who stay home so women's educational achievement goes down and down and acreer success as they want to replicate little miss stepford wife mummy educated to serve daddy (b) women who earn £100k a year plus tend not to want to wipe bottoms all day and are not so stupid as to be taken in my propoganda suggesting a woman's place is in the home in the early years - they use their brains and realise working mother produce the best most successful children.

I don't think I can be jabed as I'm not male. I had my first baby at 22 (not over 50). I believe women should work etc etc We are poles apart.

at 'produce the best children'. And what happened to SAHM?

I remember you from another thread, you didn't upset me but I did think you were a nobhead. Over opinionated and under informed and pretty damn unhelpful and patronising.

Xenia, but all of those are (biased) assertions, and are based on (asserted) correlations, not actual data.

I could assert the exact opposite, using my particularly 'elite institution educated' cohort as an example - but I am intelligent and well-educated enough to be looking for actual data, rather than stating my opinions to be truth.

As i said, I am looking for ACTUAL A-level grades and university degree classes for 3 groups of children:

• Those whose parents worked throughout their life from babyhood.
• Those whose mum or dad stayed at home for a period in their early life
• Those whose mum or dad stayed at home for 18 years

as while I believe that there may well be some difference in attainment between the first and third groups (probably due to an underlying causative factor, such as level of education achieved by the parent, rather than being due to 'working' as a magic ingredient), I do not believe that there is likely to be such a significant difference - if any at all - between the first and second groups.

Thinking about it (always inadvisable with a Xenia post)
"We all know parents who work do best for their children and the chidlren of housewives have the worst outcomes of any in the UK" is a false opposition.

Surely the opposite of 'parents who work' is 'parents who are long term unemployed', not housewives?

And isn't the real correlation between educational attainmen of children and the educational attainment of their mothers - 'employment of the mother' may be a proxy measure for this, but is not an accurate one as it takes no account of the nature of the employment. The most significantly neglected children in the school I work in, in a deprived area,are in fact those where both parents are juggling 2 or 3 jobs to make ends meet, and where the children are often left alone or with older or younger siblings for very significant periods of time out of school or in holidays. Those who have mums at home, by contrast, do better because there is someone feeding them, putting them to bed, talking to them, even reading to them and doing their homework with them.

But in the North London ghetto, such lives are probably unimaginable to you.