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Gifted and talented.

373 replies

jabed · 22/08/2012 10:06

Its three O clock in the morning. I have a stinking headache which is why I am up and I would like to get contentious. Do you mind?

With no holds barred, my DS is by any definition gifted and talented. I am a fairly able kind of guy myself and DW is extremely gifted, so no prizes for guessing where he gets it.

The thing is, I have been pondering what I am going to do with him. We currently HE. This is because he is young- He is a late August born and would, were he at school he going into year 2 now. Many a couple of weeks younger would just be going into year 1.
He is gifted as I said, which is another reason for not putting him in school. he has a generally high IQ and academic giftedness and if SW is right he has musical talent.

I don?t want him accelerated. I don?t want him messed with. I want him to be what neither DW nor I were - a child with a childhood. My experience of the local school, which would have been our first choice (and was in fact where we sent him) for his primary years do not deserve him. The teachers cannot deal with gifted children. He does not deserve his peers in that school - disruptive and largely ill socialised with a large percentage at the other end of the spectrum to DS. But there is no other local school.

There is my own school which has a prep but they want to put him a year up.

So, what do you do in that situation? I am at a loss. I have looked at options and got bogged down. We have to make a decision before year 3 as I seriously believe he needs to be in formal education at some point there.

Just a general throw out to see what others would do with such a DS. I reserve the right to get toss potty if people get rude about my DS or my feelings about being middle class etc.
This is my DS not an abstract. Thanks

OP posts:
exoticfruits · 23/08/2012 08:56

Sorry-I meant he had to learn to swim-anything else was choice.

Crocodilio · 23/08/2012 09:21

What's the problem with going up a year? I did it (geeky reader type, although pretty good at sports), and was socially and academically fine throughout my school career. I didn't have to go back a year, just remain in education until the required age, and as I did Alevels this happened naturally. Exams were taken either with, or a year earlier than, my year group. I did very well at school, although admittedly haven't come to much since!

exoticfruits · 23/08/2012 09:22

He is already an August birthday-he does need to fit in with his peers, especially as he is isolated at home.

seeker · 23/08/2012 09:25

I've just discovered on reading through this thread that I am older than jabed!

titchy · 23/08/2012 09:47

I'll take over for you seeker Grin

SCOUTS SCOUTS SCOUTS!!!!!

wordfactory · 23/08/2012 10:01

jabed I am an only child and work from home, so can safel;y say that being self sufficient and comfortable with my own comany is one of my fortes (sorry can't find accent key).

But it is utterly essential that on learns how to work within the wider world and that one learns how to interact, listen, accept, compromise and, perhaps most important of all, get others on your side (you need to do this in life to get what you want).

For most kids this takes place with siblings and peers. Their childhood is their practice ground. Without that practice, DC enter adulthood wihtout the necessary skills and become highly frustrated because they want and need thigs but don't have the means to get them.

wordfactory · 23/08/2012 10:05

I suppose what I'm saying is that your DS is missing so many elements of natural practice time...no siblings, no school friends, no clubs...you're gonna need to be highly proactive.

Being bright/gifted is great but utterly pointless unless one is able to harness it and do with it what you want to do.

teacherwith2kids · 23/08/2012 10:07

Jabed,

I had a very bright 6 year old who i withdrew from his village school after a year and a half because it was damaging him. I would not be so rude about it as you are about yours - it served him very well in Reception with a teacher who was interested in him and very prepared to work with his 'differences'. However, in Year 1 the combination of a weak teacher, a mixed class with some very difficult children in it, and an inflexible attitude towards DS doing different work from the others created a significant problem. DS became very anxious, a selective mute, and showed very significant ASD traits.

One of the solutions that the school proposed for him was to move him, as a Year 1, into a year 3/4 class - so to accelerate him by at least 2 years. I rejected that, and home educated hium until we - coincidentally but very luckily - had to move area because of a change in my husband's job.

As the root of DS's difficulty in school was predominantly social (good teachers in the state sector since have remained perfectly able to challenge him academically), I was determined that he should have a good mix of 'socialisation' within HE. We tried the local Home Ed group - do you have one? - and although DS found the chaos of full meetings impossible to handle at the time, we went on lots of trips with them and he really benefitted from that 'doing something interesting with a group of other children of mixed ages' thing. We also met up on a one to one basis with a couple of local families with HE children around DS's age, who we wouldn't have met had we not attended the group.

He was already a Beaver, and I have to say (he is still a Scout) that the Scouting movement has been fantastic for him with its mix of active but not sporting activities and well-controlled socialisation within a clear framework. Woodcraft Folk is an alternative for those who find the Christian ethos which theoretically (mostly invisibly) underpins Scouting too much. Google Beavers and the website will show your local contact. There may not be a group in your village, but you are likely to find groups easily within a short journey. Groups differ - if you have several to choose from, it might be a good idea to visit a few as the quality and variety of activities and the purposefulness of the meetings does vary with the leadership.

The village happened to have a football club, which DS joined. Not because he loved football - though in fact he turned out to be a very, very good goalkeeper who has since been scouted by our local professional team - but because 'being in a team' was something that he needed to learn alongside maths and science to be properly educated.

DS also had weekly swimming lessons in a group - that 'doing something alongside others' where an adult's attention is not for one child alone was also a good antidote to HE. For this - as for rugby, which he also did for a while with his dad, as I did most of the HE and it was important that they did things together too - we travelled a few miles to the nearest town. One of the things about HEing in a village is that there are limited activities available locally, so you do have to be prepared to travel to access some of the opportunities that would benefit your child. I have described what DS did - but had he been interested in different things we might have travelled for group music-making, for gymnastics classes, for science clubs, for ice-skating - for opportunities to persue those interests in a group setting 9which is important) we would have had to travel.

In the holidays - may not be possible for you as you are abroad so much - there are lots and lots of 'activity' weeks, mainly run for holiday childcare for schooled children. I found them really good for DS while HEing as they were very organised, often had very high quality input (DS did a football one run by the local professional club, for example) and gave him whole days away from me and under the care of different adults.

In the end, our long term solution was to move, and return DS to a different primary in our new town, where he has absolutely thrived both academically and socially. However, had we had to continue HE then I think a balance of Beavers, local groups, a link with other HEing families with similar philosophies (We were 'structured' HEers, and had several similar families within a radius of 5 miles or so) and travelling to special interest groups away from the village would have given him a reasonable balance.

wordfactory · 23/08/2012 10:11

Oh and jabed don't worry too much about making your DS do things he's not naturaly inclined to do. DC can be terribly conservative about moving out of their comfoirt zones.

As the parent, we sometimes have to give our DC little choice for their greater good Wink.

teacherwith2kids · 23/08/2012 10:19

We had a 'try it 3 times' rule (I'd forgotten that!)- DS had to go to something new three times before deciding whether he wanted to carry on or stop. Pretty much everywhere was quite happy, when I explained the circumstances, for DS to do 3 sessions before signing up for the club, and DS was quite happy because he knew that there was an 'out' if he really didn't like it.

Wotme · 23/08/2012 10:38

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Colleger · 23/08/2012 11:03

Jabed, where exactly do you live. I am currently struggling trying to find HE options for my 11 year old because all the groups are geared towards 3-10 year olds. Unless you are in the Highlands I'd be very surprised that there are no HE families in your area. An area does not mean a 1 mile radius!

VonHerrBurton · 23/08/2012 12:21

I'd love to know if your ds ever feels lonely jabed?

My ds was ahead of most of his peers for YR, 1 and 2. He also showed some difficult behaviour at times. Although he didn't ever bite anyone's cheek - or any other part of their anatomy, for that matter, I guess you would say he belonged in the garbage bin. Nice.

Now he is older. He has many friends and is extremely active, belonging to many different sports/leisure clubs. He is a patient, kind, loyal and sweet boy. He does slightly better than average academically but I think if we had HE'd him he would still be miles ahead - which kid wouldn't with 1 - 1?

We live in a very middle-class area and there are some spoilt, horrible brats as well as some lovely dc's at ds's very good state school. You will never be 100% happy with any option you go for but if your ds really is that bright he will be picking up on your stress and he will not thrive.

I am a little sad for him, and I wish him the best of luck in his life.

InkyBinky · 23/08/2012 12:51

teacherwith2kids = good posts

My DS's were very quiet, well behaved and studious and went to a junior school where there were plenty of boisterous loud and naughty DC's. They never copied the other DC's bad behaviour. Perhaps the fact that the OP's DS was copying the naughty behaviour is indicative to him not being used to social situations and , perhaps, being socially immature. If he an intelligent lad then he needs to learn to work these things out for himself.

I am not sure what I would do in the OP's position. The local school does sound a bit rough and the religious school does seem a bit too, err, religious, however HE seems as though it is a bit isolating for him.

I would be very wary of 'classifying' him at such a young age. He is 'geeky', he is 'not sporty', He is 'mature' etc, etc. he is also only 5/6 and still developing his own personality. I think you need to be careful not to over analyse him and not to fret over him quite so much. I think you, perhaps, come across as a bit over protective and overly doting. He is a bright lad with loving and capable parents and I am sure he will be fine with whatever you decide.

Has he tried any summer camps in Canada? There is usually something to suit everyone.

iseenodust · 23/08/2012 13:02

Yep my cousin's DS goes to Lego camp for a week. I've always thought someone should introduce that over here.

iseenodust · 23/08/2012 13:04

Said child's father and grandfather both have PhD in case that influences your view on suitability Wink.

teacherwith2kids · 23/08/2012 15:01

Coming back to this with another thought...

When planning DS's HE and the activities we did within it, I listed not only the 'subject knowledge' that he needed to learn next, but also the 'skills / attitudes' that he needed to develop through his education (with especial focus on those where he had struggled in school). When selecting activities and what new things we might try, I thought about those skills and attitudes just as much as the 'academic content'.

Just off the top of my head, they included things like:

  • Being able to work independently, without adult help.
  • Being able to learn in a group / class situation, where adult time needs to be shared.
  • Being able to interact appropriately in a social situation with people of all ages.
  • Working in a group / team focused on the same end result (could be a football team or an orchestra or a group making a large model or on an archaeological dig - just the skill of working co-operatively alongside others).
  • Following the ideas of other children rather than only one's own.
  • Trying something he was bad at, and improving this with practice. (The extension to this was being the worst at something in a group or class and improving over time)
  • Understanding that people are different, and responding appropriately even to people you do not get on with.
  • Learning how to make friends, and overcome the difficulties which naturally arise in friendships.
  • Learning at least one way of keeping fit that can be followed throughout life.
  • Winning and losing with grace.

There were, initially, also a whole set to do with speaking to people outside the family, which were specific to DS as a selective mute.

On an unrelated subject, 'Exceptionally Gifted Children' by Miranda Gross is an interesting read, especially when considering acceleration. DS is not exceptionally gifted by Gross's definition - your DS might be, but it is still a thought-provoking read. I was accelerated by a year at the beginning of secondary (missed Year 7 entirely) and only 'regained' that year by taking a year off before going to Cambridge. Academically, it was absolutely right for me, and I remained at the very top of the year above. Socially, it was perhaps less successful but as a slightly odd, geeky child I am not sure that I would have shone socially even in my own year! However, at 11, a year is a smaller percentage of a child's total life and thus it 'shows' less than at 6.

Xenia · 23/08/2012 15:40

Are yhou in London? If so just pick a school in the top 10 for exam results eg Westminster underschool or Habs boys - prep would do and he will be with lots and lots of boys and the best in each class will be very similar.

I was a year young through most of school and always I was a bit small physically I don't think it did me any harm at all and I was quite happy to go to university at 17.

teacherwith2kids · 23/08/2012 15:45

Xenia,

As jabed repeatedly describes issues related to living in a village I suspect that he is not in London ...

madwomanintheattic · 23/08/2012 15:46

Re summer camps in Canada - this summer my (gifted) kids have enjoyed mountain biking camp, golf camp, tennis camp, and a hiking club and swimming club. Dd1 also broke her arm as she decided on a whim to try out ds1's roller blades. It didn't go well.

They are all (and have always been) keen members of the scouting and guiding movements. I realize this suggestion is being roundly ignored, but it definitely gives children a different outlook on life. I am all for children not having 1-1 adult attention 24/7 and learning to rub along with other people.

Jabed, no need to apologies for being a second home owner - we just live in a beautiful area where such a thing is common. Had you been one of them, I could have introduced your son to many of the extra curricular activities in the area. However, given your reticence regarding things outdoors, I suspect you may not have fetched up here. We have what seems like a higher percentage of Olympians here than anywhere else in the world. They fetch up everywhere, and clutter up the mountain roads with their training. Grin

Oh, I forgot - we've also been involved in riding lessons and trail rides this summer. Dd2 has two sessions of lessons a year.

So, about those beavers. Get him on the waiting list before he turns 6.

rabbitstew · 23/08/2012 16:38

Beavers, but more especially Cubs, is fantastic. I'm another person who would recommend this for socialising, mixing with generally pleasant children, learning a few practical skills, learning the value of hard work and achievement, gaining a bit of independence, etc, etc. My dss would never learn to light a camp fire and cook food over it, etc, if it were left up to me... and the opportunity to go away with the cubs and camp for a few nights with lots of other boys of a similar age and do active things of the sort they also probably wouldn't do much of with the family, is an excellent experience for mixing with peers. My ds1 is about as unsporty as you can possibly get (particularly since he has hypermobility syndrome, so can tire relatively easily and needs to be careful of his joints), but even he will join in and enjoy canoeing, or rounders, or rock climbing, or an assault course if it's with the other cubs. Beavers is a lovely introduction to the scouting movement, but given it's for children from 5 and 3/4 to 8, a bit less adventurous (although both my dss did one night camping out under the stars with Beavers, went on a few visits to places, including the local fire station, which they rather enjoyed as they got to play with the hose..., learning new things, making things, and loved playing organised games in the hall with the other Beavers).

jabed · 23/08/2012 16:58

You haven't said what he's reading at the moment?

I am not sure what this has to do with anything, but I wont be accused of mising your comments seeker.
Aquilla 2 and A Book of World Records and Spaceship Earth are currently somewhere around.

OP posts:
jabed · 23/08/2012 16:59

As jabed repeatedly describes issues related to living in a village I suspect that he is not in London ...

No, we are not in London. :)

OP posts:
jabed · 23/08/2012 17:01

I'd love to know if your ds ever feels lonely jabed?

I asked him this. He didnt seem to think so. It may be more my fears than his.

OP posts:
jabed · 23/08/2012 17:04

I'd be very surprised that there are no HE families in your area. An area does not mean a 1 mile radius!

I am sure there are. I am not sure that is what he needs though. All a bit busy busy. I was just thinking more along the line of people to play with - just as he is now. Some young boys called (they always seem to know when we get here) and he is off playing.

OP posts: