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Original poster

taking children out of school for holidays is ILLEGAL

588 replies

zippitippitoes · 08/03/2006 10:03

interesting news report here \link{http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-2075270,00.html\ High Court Ruling}

so will anybody still be taking those unauthorised breaks and days off?

Will schools get tougher

and does your school say no at the moment?

OP posts:
elastamum · 08/03/2006 21:43

I am planning on taking my kids out of school to follow their dad round the world on a yacht race! Have no idea how we are going to tackle the school as I cant predict when they will be in port, and we will be flying in and out of varios locations, but I am planning to make it an educational trip. Hoping I can swing it with the school and they will not shop us to the cops Shock. As they are both in primary I cant belive it will mess up their education that much

Original poster
zippitippitoes · 08/03/2006 22:02

well the word lip service did cross my mind Emma, as I said further down they are discounts from brochure price Smile

OP posts:
Linnet · 08/03/2006 22:20

I don't believe in taking children out of school for a two week holiday if it can be helped. My dd is in primary 4 now and last year we went to Florida in the October holidays, because of the flights she had to miss the last 2 days of term in September. It's not something that I was particularly happy about but since we had saved for a few years to be able to afford this holiday I didn't think that missing 2 days of school at the end of term when they don't do any work anyway would make any difference.
I sent a note into the school office saying that due to family circumstances dd would be absent those two days and that was it. Nobody said anything else about it and we had a great holiday.

This year we have a family wedding in France and although dh and I were really hoping that it would be during our summer school holidays so we could make it into a fortnights holiday it's actually going to be a weekend in September. This means that dd who will have been back at school for 2 weeks after her summer holiday will miss 3 days of school as we'll only go for a long weekend. There is no way I'd take her out for longer since she's just had 6 weeks holidays. And since it's a family wedding I really don't see that there should be a problem, it's not like we can force the couple to change the date of their wedding to make it more convenient for my family and the school.

beatie · 09/03/2006 09:32

I know I should parp myself out of this topic but I cannot help but be drawn in. :)

There appears to be an underlying contempt for schools in some of these threads. I can’t understand why parents are so happy to take advantage of a free education in yet get indignant about expected attendance. If a parent wishes to choose the exact terms and conditions of their child’s schooling then perhaps they would be better off home schooling.

Choosing to take your child out of school for term time holidays does not show support for the school, and those parents who do so are in no higher category than parents who take their children out of school for birthday treats or to go shopping, or who just can’t be bothered to make their child go to school some days.

Making the assumption that your holiday is more important than a particular school day is arrogant. Who, but the teacher, is in the position to know which days and weeks are essential? Your child missing 2 weeks of school will impact on the teacher and the rest of the class; it’s likely that the child will miss some groundwork that is crucial to a topic studied further in the school year. And, if lots of children were frequently absent for term time holidays, the teacher would constantly have to re-cover bits that each child had missed.

Holidays are more educational than school!?! OK. You take your child on holiday for a few years, I’ll send my child to school for a few years and we’ll see who knows the most at the end of that time!

I can’t help but think of footage of African AIDS orphans who are so desperate to go to school but cannot because they have to care for their siblings and become head of their home at the age of 12. I’m reminded of what little regard some parents and children have for the compulsory (that’s surely a good thing!) and free British education system.

As for teachers taking term time holidays - according to some of you the teacher would be entitled to take term time holidays because they would qualify for your definition of ‘exceptional circumstances’ I.e. they have children of their own and if they don’t holiday in term time, their children won’t be able to have a holiday.

elastamum · 09/03/2006 09:49

We are not planning a holiday but a world trip and I am intending to take the school work with us and do 'home school' every day. I think this is educational, we travelled a lot and by the age of seven I could navigate with a map and quite happily shop on my own in markets in foreign countries where they spoke no english. We also understood a lot more about different cultures than I would have done otherwise.
I dont want to de register my kids from school as we will be away for about 3-4 weeks then back for at least a month before the next leg and we will be returning. I have no idea how we will work what is a lifetime opportunity for us this within the rules. Also, as our kids are not in the state system we are not taking advantage of a free system, which lets face it isnt free anyway because we all pay for it in taxes.

BT I appreciate your points on schools as they are good ones, but I dont think a fit in or be prosecuted mentality from the authorities is helpful. Moving away from 3 terms might help the holiday cost argument but that is a whole other topic....

beatie · 09/03/2006 09:58

elastamum - I appreciate a world trip with homeschooling thrown in can be more than or as educational as being sat in a classroom.

I'm also for Educational Authorities or the Government looking for other ways around the holiday system, such as staggered term dates.

uwila · 09/03/2006 10:01

Can someone explain to me why schools all go on break at the same time? If we staggered the times more, holidays wouldn't jack up the prices so much for one or two weeks of break. Wouldn't that make more sense? And easier for us to leave kids in school without breaking the bak for a holiday.

Have to admit I haven't read the thread so apologies if this has already been said.

elastamum · 09/03/2006 10:02

Yes, but in the current climate I dont know what we are going to do as we are not really lawbreakers by nature - I am hoping that we can swing it on exceptional circumstances. My point is that not everyones lives fit into the neat little boxes that this government is so fond of prescribing for all

Enid · 09/03/2006 10:06

agree normsnockesr

I have said many times how 'lovely' it must be to have to listen to little Johnny's Florida journal. I'd be furious if dd1 came home telling me that they all had to listen to one of her classmates showing off about their fabulous (skivey) holiday.

Hopefully this ruling (although as Bugsy says not making it actually illegal to take your kids out of school, only illegal if unauthorised) will discourage that kind of showing off.

Enid · 09/03/2006 10:10

6 terms in Somerset - I think we are moving to 6 terms here in Dorset soon. But it makes little difference in terms of holiday prices.

Enid · 09/03/2006 10:11

go beatie

Bozza · 09/03/2006 10:13

Will the 6 terms be the same 6 terms though?

GDG · 09/03/2006 10:15

Great post Beatie - agree 100%

spidermama · 09/03/2006 10:16

No time to read threat at the mo but I'm absolutely furious about this. Angry
It's almost as if the authrities believe all parents ever do is sit their kids in front of telly all day. As if 'education' is a totally seperate concept from life.

My kids are learning all the time wherever they are. How DARE the state dictate to me when I can and can't have my holidays.

Every lesson is important eh? What bollocks. Is that why my child does colouring in so often to allow the others to catch up.

It simply means more parents will have to lie to the schools. I am being pushed towards home educating more and more each term.

elastamum · 09/03/2006 10:25

I think the issue is the balance of what the state should be able to prescribe by law.

If you extrapolate the argument that education is good therefore we should make sure allk kids attend school all the time and prosecute for unautorised abscence, will we get to a point where as five a day is good we will prosecute parents whos kids dont get enough veg, or are fat! Also children who are excluded from mainstream schools round here get less than 15 hours a week educational provision at the centre up the road from us and are often smoking in the street. Will that not be illegal as it is the authority that is not sending these kids to school

spidermama · 09/03/2006 10:27

Ah dear Beatie ... the 'fit in or fuck off' argument again. If only life were so simple and we all had the same needs.

You appear to feel that school can always meet the needs of children far better than the home environment. I catergorically don't. I feel they go to school too many days and the days are too long already (at primary school level). It's crowd control and childcare for our work, work work culture.

However, it's all or nothing for the likes of me. I continue to consider home education as an option, but it's a huge financial and emotional committment and I'm not totally 100% convinced it wouldn't marginalise my kids, or that I'm up to the job. I'd also need to make enormous efforts to ensure they're socialising as most of their peer group would be locked away in school every day.

Why on earth is it beyond the education authorities to be flexible? My children are already stifled at school. Our time off school is far richer in terms of educational, spiritual and social development. They come on in leaps and bounds in the summer holidays. I sorely wish I had the sel-belief and the support to be able to do it all of the time. But I don't so I have to rely on school.

JennyLee · 09/03/2006 10:34

My ds is mine and I can take him on holiday if I want to, also I always have to get the cheapest flight pssible as am not rich, so it is either never go on hoilday or take him out in term time. also, in Mexico with my fmaily which is where I go , my ds learns lots of Spanish from his relatives and they are not going to be teaching Spanish at school untill he gets to high school.

My ds is not owned by the State, how dare they tell us what to do about holidays, they should concentrate on the kids with real problems, not ones with parnts so 'awful' they want to take their kids somewhere nice for a while and experience new countries,

Also this has nothing whatsoever to do with kids in countries where education in unavailable, that is awful, if you feel really bad about it please give to a charity don't try and tie it in and make us feel guilty about being able to afford things as that would be a never ending spiral. or does that mean if you pay for private education you can take your kids out of school, but everyone else should be grateful for state schools - yes parp out of it please!!! Beatie

GDG · 09/03/2006 10:34

But spidermama - that's fine if that's your view - home educate and you can have holidays whenever you like. But if your child is attending a state school, then you should buy into, and respect, those rules. Undermining them is a poor lesson to your children apart from anything.

If you want to do your own thing, then you are entitled to do so, but not within the state system.

spidermama · 09/03/2006 10:35

Vee ver only following orders. Grin

beatie · 09/03/2006 10:37

But are most parents pondering over the philosphy of enriching their child's educational, spiritual and social development? Or are they just looking for a cheap week in Lanzarote to suit themselves?

GDG · 09/03/2006 10:38

And what's all this 'locked away in school every day' business? It's not a concentration camp! I absolutely loved school and, so far, so good, ds1 loves it too - he doesn't see it as punishment!!

spidermama · 09/03/2006 10:38

GDG the state system has a duty to recognise individual needs and also to respect the knowlege and imput of the parents to have some ideas about what might be best for their own children. We should not be encouraged to completely absolve ourselves of any responsibility for educating our children.

pashmina · 09/03/2006 10:39

I am taking term time holiday, even though I don't reaaly think its right...
I have just got my form back from the head of my dd's primary (which is a very high achieving school - top 10 in country), with a little note saying "have a lovely time"...I was expecting a bit of dissaproval! only taking a couple of days either side of half term.

apparently we are not allowed time off in term time during SATS years...can't let those league tables down!!

GDG · 09/03/2006 10:41

I don't absolve any responsibility for educating my children - I see the education of my children as a partnership between school and myself, absolutely. But I choose to send my children to an institution that has rules, and therefore I adhere to those rules. There is plenty of time outside of school hours for me to have my input - every weekend plus 13 weeks holiday! No need to eat into term time imo.

spidermama · 09/03/2006 10:41

Beatie that's extrememly patronising. There are as many different holidays as their are families. My holidays invovle camping in the forest but I don't see anything wrong with those families who choose a week in Lanzarote. Good natured, affordable family time is precious.