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Original poster

taking children out of school for holidays is ILLEGAL

588 replies

zippitippitoes · 08/03/2006 10:03

interesting news report here \link{http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-2075270,00.html\ High Court Ruling}

so will anybody still be taking those unauthorised breaks and days off?

Will schools get tougher

and does your school say no at the moment?

OP posts:
jamese · 08/03/2006 12:19

I was taken out of secondary ever year for the last week of the summer term to go on a family holiday. I only ever missed sports days and fun activities nothing educational. Has school changed so much that the children are actually learning anything in that last week? My dd is only 2 so I haven't had to consider this yet.

Bugsy2 · 08/03/2006 12:26

Its not really illegal to take your children out of school for a holiday. It is illegal to have unauthorised absence. So in many cases it will be down to the individual school policy as to whether or not you may take your children out of school during term time.
I'm glad about this ruling, I think it sends a positive message about the importance of education and shows that just not turning up without a valid reason will not be tolerated. We can't tackle truancy without everyone playing by the same rules.

cupcakes · 08/03/2006 12:28

I was never ever taken out of school and I don't like the thought of taking ds out either. That being said I would love a holiday and if the opportunity came up to take one and it could only be in term time I would really consider it. I'm a hypocrite.
A lot of parents at ds's school seem to regard their 10 days as a right and are surprised if their requests for odd days are refused.

Original poster
zippitippitoes · 08/03/2006 12:37

the department of education guidance says "it is not a right" now which is a subtle recent change, I think the discretion for schools is under review which is different from about five years ago when the government said they had no plans to change it(unless saying it's not a right was the outcome of the review?)

the 10 days was introduced in the second world war for service leave

I used to think it was ok but I'm coming round to the other view I think

OP posts:
cutekids · 08/03/2006 12:42

i can't understand why everyone gets so uppity about this. i rang my kids' school - not long after the last thread like this - to find out if i was still allowed to take my children out of school. i was told that we were allowed 10 days per calendar year - infants and juniors - and that we just needed to fill the holiday form in a bit nearer to the time. this school, on the other hand-and i respect this-,is very strict about truancy and lateness. the headmaster runs a very tight ship in fact. i think there's a very big difference between parents who don't care what time their kids get to school/whether their kids attend school regularly etc. to parents who do care but also like to have a week/fortnight's holiday with their children when they can afford them.i think of myself as a very responsible parent and i do worry about my kids'education etc. and my hubbie is the same. however, as long as they're not having assessments or exams at the time, i don't feel guilty about taking them out of school with the school's approval.

waggledancer · 08/03/2006 12:49

I have had to book in term time this year as there are no available summer holidays left, thanks to my very considreate colleagues taking advantage of my absence on mat leave. Luckily i will only have to request time off for ds in year 8 cos the eldest will have finished school and the youngest isn't affected. School only consider requests 4 weeks prior to the holiday so don't know what we'll do if they say no. On our side is the fact that it is July so not loads of learning going on, he has a great attendence record and we have asked for catch up work for anything important he misses.

Bugsy2 · 08/03/2006 12:54

but surely cutekids you can accept by saying "oh yes, it is fine for the educated middle class parents to save some money and take their children on holiday during term-time" you are stil condoning abscence from school.
It is very debateable how much children "learn" on holiday. One could just as well argue that kids who bunk off are learning alot because they spend all day in the library!!!!

Original poster
zippitippitoes · 08/03/2006 12:56

it's the government who are moving their view on this, because it has been taken to be 10 days as of right ...which it isn't

OP posts:
FeelingOld · 08/03/2006 13:02

My view is I have never taken my kids out of school (except for hospital appointments etc) and never will.
I just feel that it would give a bad impression to my kids. When they are tired or having an off day and want to stay at home I tell them how important it is that they go to school so if I was to turn round and say to them that it's ok to take a week off to have a holiday would be wrong IMO.
I know sometimes things crop up, ill relatives who live away etc and kids parents have to go to them so therefore kids have to go with their parents, but this is and exceptional circumstance, but don't agree with taking kids out for holidays, sorry.
I don't think the argument 'they won't miss much afterall its the last week of term' is right, it's the principle that kids need to learn that you can't just take time off when you want to, afterall they won't be able to when they go to work.
My kids school teaches the kids to be respectful and responsible and taking time off school for a holiday etc would go against that teaching.
Obviously this is just my opinion, but it is something my dh and I feel strongly about (even though with 3 kids we could save loads of money by taking our holiday during term time).

speedymama · 08/03/2006 13:17

How would you feel if the teachers decided that they were not going to turn up because they wanted to take advantage of the lower cost of holidays during term time? Teachers are parents too but they don't have the luxury to swan off on holiday when they like. If they did, I bet many of you would be first in the queue to criticise them for damaging your child's education.

My personal view is that it is wrong and sends out the wrong message to children that if don't agree with a rule, ignore it. That is not a lesson I want to be teaching my children.

Lucycat · 08/03/2006 13:20

Agree with Enid - good.

dh is a teacher and teaches in a different authority to where we live so quite frequently the half term, Christmas and Easter breaks don't coincide so dd1 won't have the same holidays. We do have the 5 weeks in the summer, but there is no way we can afford to go abroad, we would love to be able to take advantage of che3ap breaks - it's the old tour operators, supply and demand, costings of holidays that are the same old issue.

btw I would never take dd out of school for a dentist checkup etc, it gives completely the wrong impression about the value of education.

cutekids · 08/03/2006 13:23

just for the record, i am not one of these parents who thinks, "it's last week of term, i won't bother taking them in" and such-like. neither do i - unless there's absolutely no way round it - take all my children out of school when just one of them needs to be (eg sickness etc). I am a very, very law-abiding person and if the school was to tell us that we can't go on holiday within school time, then I wouldn't! that's all there is to it!!!

daisy1999 · 08/03/2006 13:24

well I've just requested to take my children out of school for the first time for 8 days for a holiday and I don't have a problem with it at all!

crunchie · 08/03/2006 13:25

OOOOHH nother contentious thread :)

Last time we managed over 600 posts on teh subject :) But I can't find the thread to link it.

I am off to Disneyland Paruis tomorrow with my kids, taking them out of school for 3 days. So stick that in your pipe and smoke it :o

Yes I got permission and the teacher said 'how fantastic, don't bother taking reading books they'll be having too much fun'!! :)

So shall I start winding this up then :)

daisy1999 · 08/03/2006 13:27

while we're away the children are going to keep a journal of what they see and do. They enjoy it and the school encourages them to do and then bring it into school to discuss.

Lucycat · 08/03/2006 13:28

Lucky you Envy

katzg · 08/03/2006 13:30

i'm married to a teacher and like some others are tied to school holidays for holidays. i think taking a child out of school of a holiday is wrong, a once in a lifetime trip maybe but your annual trip to the med, nope!

Normsnockers · 08/03/2006 13:37

Just to play devil's advocate.

Bet those children whose parents can't afford holidays at any time of year love discussing the journals of the lucky ones who can.

I personally think it shouldn't be made a big deal of for that very reason, although kids will be kids and it'll still be discussed out of lessons.

I do however feel that teachers may be put upon to help some kids catch up with what they've missed. Isn't their work onerous enough already, and they can't take holidays in term-time for the benefit of the kids continous education.

chocolateshoes · 08/03/2006 13:39

I'm a teacher & can see both sides of the argument. There are so many fantastic deals on offer during term time that it must be so tempting for families to take them up. However, teachers can't take advantage of the cheap deals, and it can be very frustrating to find you only have half a class when you need to teach something important. I've made the most of this maternity leave to get away! {grin} The worst times for holiday absences are either side of the half-terms ime.

I think the holiday companies should not be allowed to hike their prices up during the school hols. That would make it possible for more families to stick to the holidays.

In the end though for some families where parents do seasonal work, hoteliers for example, term time is their only chance to get away.

daisy1999 · 08/03/2006 13:41

norm - I agree and we were going to do for us at home but the school specifically asked to bring it in.

daisy1999 · 08/03/2006 13:42

children can do a journal whenever their holiday is taken (either school time or holiday time).

julienetmum · 08/03/2006 13:43

I read the link and noticeed that the main reason for the holiday out of term time was to take part in the finals of a dance contest.

I know that quite a few performers are having problems getting permission for time off from school at the moment.

In this case I would seriously consider home educating, which is what one parent I know of does.

Dh is a teacher so we are unable to take holidays in term time anyway but I would remove children if they got the opportunity to attend an audition or take part in something as long as it did not affect their education too much.

julienetmum · 08/03/2006 13:44

In fact I might post this on notapushymum to see what they all think on there

Original poster
zippitippitoes · 08/03/2006 13:44

the restrictions of your holiday from employment are considered exceptional circumstances but the cost of holidays isn't

it still seems as if most schools are giving permission then even when the circumstances are not exceptional?

the discounts for the every lesson count schemes are on brochure prices so they still seem pretty expensive..Thomas Cook offers still make a holiday for a family about £2000

OP posts:
waterfalls · 08/03/2006 13:47

We are going to Lanzarote in May (the last wee of term)
Pupils at ds school are able to take 10 days of per year, but I might be wrong, but is'nt it only compulsary(sp) children are in school from the Sept after their 5th Birthday??

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