taking children out of school for holidays is ILLEGAL

[zippitippitoes]

interesting news report here \link{http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-2075270,00.html\ High Court Ruling}

so will anybody still be taking those unauthorised breaks and days off?

Will schools get tougher

and does your school say no at the moment?

Drat, run out of wine. It will have to be a home brew. Or a g&t. Cheers anyway!!

oh goodness, hate to disturb the mellow tone of this!

agree that it's been a good discussion around an emotive subject.

Anyway, having lurked on the thread today, just throwing in a few more thoughts in response to recent posts:

firstly, for those of you who say why are holidays so important - why do you think so many charities offer holidays to children? I know some are aimed for kids in desperate circumstances, but not all of them - for instance youth hostels ran a holiday scheme for older children last year.

We are not having a summer holiday this year, but we are planning to stay with our inlaws. They just happen to live in an idyllic area of the country that many people pay good money to holiday in. I think you do have to factor in where your home is before you can say holidays are not so important to you. Some places are much nicer to live in than others. I used to live on an estate in Peckham - IMO anyone living there deserved to have an annual holiday from it! And for me, holidays mean lasting memories. I can still remember the smells, taste and sounds of the 1 week caravan holidays I had as a child.

was it you, quanglewangle, who said you now wish you'd had more family holidays with your children as they are growing up so fast now and will soon fly the nest? that really made me think - I don't want those regrets. It would be good to hear from more parents of older children to see how important in retrospect they think those family holidays are.

No-one would argue that family holidays are not important. However in the majority of cases children are not being taken out to have a holiday, they are being taken out to have a better holiday, which is not the same thing.

and cheap holidays taken in the school hols and the costs of camping - well yes, camping is cheap, but it's not for everyone. Some people will never ever like camping - my dh is one of them. For some families (thinking here of runaway todders etc) camping will just be too stressful.

I looked into camping in the UK as a cheap alternative but decided for us, there were some hidden costs. Aside from buying the tent, sleeping bags, matresses and basic cooker (£150.00+ I'd guess) I suspected the costs would tot up quickly if the weather was rainy or cold for long stretches. I couldn't imagine us happily staying in a tent or on a campsite all day for days on end - we'd end up going for trips to the indoor adventure park, the cinema, more meals out etc just to get away from the dripping canvas and mud. Mind you, I think most estimated holiday costs are deceptive - once you leave home and are out in the big wide world, everything just seems to cost more money. And camping must be risky if you have no back up credit to call on. What happens if you need to stay in a b and b overnight or your equipment suddenly needs replacing?

but my main point is that camping is not a universal good answer for every family looking for cheap holidays in the school hols - good for you if it works for your family.

Anyway here talks the person with a camper van parked outside her front door - a van that is fully functioning and fully insured but has never ever been driven by said person (only said person's husband) since it was acquired last July... (and not for want of said person trying)...but that's a whole different thread.....

that's true, tigermoth. But I don't really see what's so bad about no holiday at all.

We more than saved the cost of the kit in the first year. I estimate that the tebt will last us at least 5 years. Much of the kit is just transportable from the house.

And I fully agree that it isn't to everyones taste....but them we are talking about the choice of a holiday rather than having one or not.

As dh says we'd rather ahvae a 5 star hotel with hot and cold running staff, but you cut your coat etc etc

And the extra costs would be the same if you were in a caravan, or self catering etc. Otherwise you are saying that the family would just sit in the holiday house saving money. And if that is the case , whyc not save even more and stay at home!?

sp,do you mean no holiday at all for a year or not holiday at all through your whole childhood?

I think T'moth's last but one post below shows why holidays are very necessary!
But agree with MB's point about usually it is people wanting a BETTER holiday.But as T'moh says - the one week in a caravan was magic.

We used to holiday in leaky chalets in Devon or Norfolk when i was little. Equally magical. I have NEVER been on a package hol.

But Custy is right - for many, a hol of any kind is out of the question, price-wise, at peak time. A hol of any kind in low season is still out of the question for many.

T'moth's last post but two!

mb, but I'd guess you can more easily sit an a holday house all day if pushed - more space, more facilities, less vulnerable to the weather. I know tents have improved immensly, but they are still tents.

I think either you're a tent person, or you're not. My DP is NOT, and your assessment of needing back up ££ for a bolt hole, actrivities is spot on. DS and I are a cheap date, even in a tent.

I don't think camping should set a benchmark of an enjoyable hol for all!

I mean I don't see what's wrong with few holidays throughout childhood - i.e. not one every year. But 1 week in a static caravan is around 200 quid in late July/early sep. anyone who has to go in term time to get that at 120 gets my sympathy, but I'd wager that represents maybe 0.001% of people who take holidays in term time.

I think you are spot on SP

MB - "tebt" is that tent or debt!!??

tigermoth - yes it was me who regretted not taking more hols. Whatever anyone says, a week away is different to a week at home. Well it is for us anyway. At home everyone is so busy that we rarely, if ever, get time to socialise together so a week in each others' company lets us get to know each other again. That may sound a bit odd but teenagers grow up and change so quickly. This years will be our first holiday as a whole family in 4 years. ds2 was 12 on the last hols and is now 16 so it will be very different and says he wants to go somewhere where he can go clubbing !! Think we might avoid that though. I want a rest from worrying not more problems.

havent read the whole thread but have to admit that if we had no choice we would take our children out school to go on holiday. DH works in a very small buisness they cannot support too many people going away at the same time. IMO the education departments can often spend alot of time dealing with the soft targets rather than harder targets like bully, children with special need who do not getting adequate support etc.

I have been avoiding this BUT can't resist!

INSET-IN my school these days are used to cover 'whole' staff training ie. breakaway and restraint, moving and handling,first aid, etc that needs updating every year

Please think about the poor TAs when talking about school hols as the majority are on term time only contracts (and do not get paid for 13 weeks a year) but cannot take time off in term time either.

If icould I would maybe take my kids out the day before school breaks up toget a holiday but not the start of term and only whilst they are young,I couldn't believe that 5 kids in my dd1s class missed the first 2 weeks of reception for hols and missed the whole settling in time!

heeelllooo thread!
you still here.......?
i'm now going to go through, marking you, spelling mistakes, et al...
starting with my own!

so have i killed it yet

FOB don't try to kill this thread .... it's impossible!!!!

aaaaaaawwwwwww!

for my family - we can go abroad with all its experiences for a week in a "eurotent" for an exceedingly cheaper price than going to some butlinsesq "eurotent" uk holiday in school holiday times - the only uk holiday we would be able to afford - we can't even afford the sodding caravans.

i go back to the point that if someone want to take their kids to dubai mid term then fine, it should be their choice.

i do think this enables only a certain number of people with money to have any kind of "quality" holiday

if you could only afford a cruise in june when you could never have contemplated one in august then why not afford your children that experience?

whoever said that a weeks holiday in a caravan in late july early aug was £200 please tell me where! if i were to take a holiday at that time (just me dp and dd) it would cost around £400, which we cannot afford, and that is with 20% off from haven!

if i had to take dd out of schoolfor a week i would make sure she caught up work, didnt do it near exams/coursework/anything important, but also make sure she had a brilliant time with her family.

dp works long hours and they dont see each other a lot, he has also started working weekends so 5 nights a week when he gets home she is already asleep, and every day when he goes to work she is still in bed. this isnt good for their relationship, but we need the money. we cant really afford for me not to work, but we cant afford for me to work either as childcare is too expensive, so dp works long hours for fuck all! so a holiday is a must to us!!!

and as we are living with my parents we need a holiday away just the three of us, as at home we dont get real family time that we would all love, so yes to cut the cost from £400 a week to £160 is a must have as we have fuck all money and if it cost anymore we just wouldnt be able to do it!!!

i can understand where people are coming from with the fact that if everyone did it it would be chaos, but some people need to to be able to afford a holiday at all, like us! and camping is a no no with a child who will not sleep anywhere other than a cot (doesnt have to be hers just a cot) not a buggy, not a car seat, not in a tent, not in a bed, not with me!!!

We go in my parent's touring caravan, which is a lot cheaper than hiring a static. Saying that, we are struggling to book up for Easter as many sites are full and my Dad has left it too late.

Going waaaaay back down the thread, yes Julienetmum I do think we're from the same area.

I too remember the furore over the factory shutdown.

The other issue - striking teachers - I don't know the intimate details of the issue (I'm only a parent lol) I just know that my eldest child lost five days' valuable education through their actions, and I just wondered what the difference is between their actions and me taking my child out of school for five days for a family holiday?

Striking teachers is an entirely differnt issue - besides teachers foresee this and plan around it accordingly but not for child a, b, then c when they all take different holidays at different times and still have the rest of the class to teach.

I can't believe how lonf this thrad is and that people still think its ok to do this. However STACEY I did have a flicker of doubt IMO when I read your post and your point is right some people do need to take such holidays but how would you ever police that? and it still doesn't detract from the educational disruption.

Even when this thread is dead and burried I will find it and post those statisics when I eventually find them.

I wonder if any parents have changed their views and subsequently their holiday plans as a result?