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Education

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Original poster

taking children out of school for holidays is ILLEGAL

588 replies

zippitippitoes · 08/03/2006 10:03

interesting news report here \link{http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-2075270,00.html\ High Court Ruling}

so will anybody still be taking those unauthorised breaks and days off?

Will schools get tougher

and does your school say no at the moment?

OP posts:

Blandmum · 14/03/2006 14:25

Trouble is tho, cruncie, there are loads of parents at secondary who are still taken their kids out of school and still saying 'They learn more on holiday than they do in school' Which is cobblers!

niceglasses · 14/03/2006 14:26

I would have thought the "repeated" bit was the difference. Repeatedly asking for weeks off during one academic yr, days off for treats etc I would think is NOT on - a weeks holdiay - with all the caveats (exams, otherwise gd attendance, catch up yourself) was acceptable. For me anyway. I respect your view, but its not mine. My kids are young, in fact only one in reception, so may change my mind!!!

cutekids · 14/03/2006 14:27

we are going round in circles here aren't we! let's live and let live!

Original poster

zippitippitoes · 14/03/2006 14:28

or maybe in the country you would be so bored you would like a city break with all the entertainment and facilities available

I think holiday pay is normally in your hourly rate pro rata if holiday isn't paid as such, like temp workers (obviously not for rhubarb)

I can't see that days out with kids are much different from holidays ..they miss school either way, and chances are they are at a funfair or shopping or poolside on both

OP posts:

harpsichordcarrier · 14/03/2006 14:29

yes I would probably CHOOSE the SATS week
evil evil invention imho

quanglewangle · 14/03/2006 14:32

MB, I think we agree that people shouldn't take the piss, though I have to say crunchie makes some good points. The difference seems to be that you think every body else should suffer for this and I don't.

I think teachers have a tough time and I acknowledge that it may cause difficulties in the class room but if the system needs changing parents aren't well placed to do it and I am not going to martyr myself and family for the system.

And can anyone tell me why, if the curriculum has suddenly got so tight, GCSE's are so much easier than O levels? They just don't have the depth of O levels. As for SATS, it is the school being assessed not the child (imho) so not important. Having siad that, I am quite competitive academically both for me and the kids so I wouldn't want them to miss them.

Blandmum · 14/03/2006 14:35

Quangle, they don't havethe depth, but they are broad courses of study. Also it takes longer to teach things since standards of behaviour have fallen.....children never catch up on missed work, for example, and seldom seem to revise out of lesson time. So we spoon feed them thorough. We shouldn't, But we are expect to do this.

I don't think anyone should suffer. I said, right at the start that parent have the total right to do what they want with their kids.....they just can't moan when the kids do poorly in their exams

jenkel · 14/03/2006 14:41

How can you say that only holidays in the UK are well deserved holiday and just because you go abroad you are not going on a deserved a holiday. A holiday is a holiday and makes no difference where you go, a week camping in Dorset, France, America or wherever.

Also, good point about saving money from booking holidays in term time and using that money to finance higher education!, though going a bit too far but this whole thread is going a bit too far.

Blandmum · 14/03/2006 14:47

The point I was making was peoplesay that holidays have to be taken in term time as they cannot afford to take the kids in the more expensive times of the year.

But people are often not taking a cheap holiday at the local seaside resort, but two weeks somewhere posh.

So their argument should be 'We had to taken them in the term time so we could get the sort of holiday we wanted' Not, we can only afford a holiday in term time.

How do you take it seriously when a child tell you that they are going on holiday on a cruse, for example? This isn't a family struggling to make ends meet, in dire need of time away together. this is a family that could afford a holiday in the school holidays but would rather have a better one in term time.

And where I work this sort of thing is the norm.

I go camping because it is cheaper and I have to holiday in the school hols.

niceglasses · 14/03/2006 14:53

What about time issues MB? Money is an issue for us, but more of an issue is my husbands time. He works horrendously long hours......we have had weeks and weeks of 2am, 10pms, days and nights away. He has to co ordinate hols with his boss so one of them is always there. We asked for time at Easter and his boss said no, so we had to have hol in termtime, a nice "posh" holiday admittedly. He needs a holiday, I need a holiday...... the issues are wider than term time vs Holidays I know, they go deep into the way society has developed - why we work such long hrs etc, but I don't really think the "type" of holiday is an issue - for me anyway, as long as no one is taking the P*. Presumably you know which parents are stretching the point and can refuse or tackel them about it??oh dear, don't think we will ever make the ends meet on this one will we??

quanglewangle · 14/03/2006 14:59

Financing uni - it is very real when they get to that stage although it seems a long way ahead when they are small.

ds1 is at uni and only just makes ends meet with our help. He is very good with money and is a quiet shy boy who doesn't spend much on partying etc. - in fact I wish he would let his hair down a bit more often. He doesn't squander his loan + our subsidy.

All this agonising over a weeks holiday counts for nothing if the class of degree they get is jeapodised by having to work in term time. You are only as good as your last qualification. OK, you won't get to uni without the grades but they can be retaken and often are. ds1 has a friend who is retaking the sixth form to get the right subjects and grades to do medicine and has offers and will get the grades. Ok, he has lost 2 years but he is getting wherehe wants. A poor class of degree is just something you have to live with.

Blandmum · 14/03/2006 15:00

My feeling is that everyone has te right to what they want and to take the consequences of their choice.

I also have a DH who works very long, unsociable hours, with difficulty getting leave. He is often out of the country for weeks and months at a time. And he, and I are under a vast amount of stress as he is in the RAF.

We still take out holidays in school break time , as A. I wouldn't take the kids out of school and B I am a teacher.

I would imagine that most Mnetter would have short shrift for a teacher who, in my circumstances took a holiday in term time.

God knows they can froth at the mouth if their kid's books do get changed often enough

Original poster

zippitippitoes · 14/03/2006 15:03

I think it's expected that students now work through university, it teaches them the value of both education and money

OP posts:

beatie · 14/03/2006 15:04

quanglewangle - isn't it expensive to do retakes or study for A levels beyond age 19?

Original poster

zippitippitoes · 14/03/2006 15:05

perhaps schools should be open 52 weeks and parents choose which 39 weeks to send their children, they could just do modules

OP posts:

quanglewangle · 14/03/2006 15:05

Forgot to spell out (though probably don't need to) that the money saved by holidaying out of season can be put aside to subsidise the student loan to avoid them working. We 'sort of' did this i.e. we saved a bit each month but would have found this hard if paying high season holiday prices.

Some good arguments on this thread on both sides and am learning a lot esp from the teachers.

Blandmum · 14/03/2006 15:06

They would have to pay me a shed load of money!

My pay is poor for my level of qualifications. The beneifit to me are the holidays. Take that away and I would look for another job TBH, evn though I love the job

Blandmum · 14/03/2006 15:07

And it would still be impossible to rteach the kids if x % had gone on holiday. How could you possibley play catch up for hem all? Would you be tutoring those who had had a holiday otr teaching the res of the class?

Original poster

zippitippitoes · 14/03/2006 15:09

they would have to sign up for core and optional modules and attend those

OP posts:

beatie · 14/03/2006 15:11

I don't think the two sides will ever come to an agreement on this issue. What I do see is one side saying me,me,me and the other side pondering the consequences of everyone doing it. The fact is, and I cannot see a way to deny it, is term-time holidays are only possible for some of you because not everyone does it.

If everyone did do it, what sort of place would school be?

quanglewangle · 14/03/2006 15:16

beatie, ds's friend has gone to a sixth form college so is free. He is not eligible for the EMA though because of his age, even though he would be eligible for the whole whack if he was a 'normal' sixth form student. He needs 2 A's and 1 B so doesn't want a job at the moment. It would be silly to scupper his chances of uni at this stage. His single mum is supporting him which as financial strain but a worth while one.

zippi - I agree with you entirely on working through uni but not in term time. Their degree can and will suffer. uni lecturers I know observe this all the time. ds will try very hard for a vacation job but is is hard in a rural area especially if you don't have a car or drive. Anyway he has exams after every vacation except the summer so wroking over Xmas or Easter may be not a good idea. Chemistry degrees are bloody intesnsive.

beatie · 14/03/2006 15:19

QW - I had the same problems trying to get work during Uni school holidays. I ended up spending my summers working away in live-in hotel positions. One that is frequently mentioned on here One that's not terribly affordable during school holidays

Original poster

zippitippitoes · 14/03/2006 15:25

I spent my first vacation in a live in psychiatric hospital in rural Kent

OP posts:

Rhubarb · 14/03/2006 15:27

julienetmum - isn't it great living within the EU?! Funny that England goes to great lengths to implement EU rulings and other countries like France just completely ignore them! You'd be appauled at the safety records over here too, only the other day I saw a workman fixing a street light perched on the top of a bucket of a digger!

But I digress! Some people CHOOSE not have holidays some years, that is their CHOICE but what the government are doing is taking away choice.

There is precious little family time left these days. I'll bet most people saw much more of their parents in the 70's, whereas now they hardly see them at all. The one time in a year when families can get together (whether that be the Costa Brava or Wales is beside the point) is now under threat. Life is already very difficult, so why are the government going all out to make it more so?

BTW for the half term hols here (seeing as I've slagged off France I'll mention something they are doing right!) the hols are staggered, which keeps holiday prices down and no-one bar the holiday companies are complaining.

quanglewangle · 14/03/2006 15:28

pmsl beatie

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