taking children out of school for holidays is ILLEGAL

[zippitippitoes]

interesting news report here \link{http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-2075270,00.html\ High Court Ruling}

so will anybody still be taking those unauthorised breaks and days off?

Will schools get tougher

and does your school say no at the moment?

I'm taking dd & ds (reception) to Majorca in May (term time). Gosh I'm looking forward to it. All those quiet beaches, no screaming kids anywhere .
The whole holiday is costing £650 for 4 of us.

when i worked full-time, we had a certain amount of hols per year for which we had to put in a holiday-form.my husband's job is the same. i never took time off sick-except once when i was literally ordered to by a doctor-in over 10 years and my husband won't take time off unless he absolutely needs to now. i have applied this to my children and, unless i'm absolutely sure it's warranted,i make sure my kids go to school. i am very,very rarely late getting my kids into school and we abide by the rules. my kids know exactly how it all works.they know that they can't "wag"off time whenever they want to so-as i've said earlier on this thread-i feel that taking an authorised holiday with the family once a year does not make my children think that school/work is unimportant. i think it gives them a sense of discipline to know that rules have to be abided by but,now and again,you can bend them a little if it's not doing much harm.i think family holidays are very important-even if it is a week in Magalluf!!!!

YAFTA! hope you didn't think that was aimed at you...must have cross posted. I love Majorca!

By the way,I rang our school up this morning to see if there were any change in the rules and was told that 10 days per calendar month were still allowed.

I agree cutekids, my kids have to be properly ill not to go to school. And I make them go even if it seems pointless e.g. sports day which they hate and don't seem to get chosen to take part in. Friends of my sons get to take the day off. I sympathise but I don't want to set a precedent and so I make them attend. However imo it is not breaking or even bending the rules if there is a 10 day entitlement and you have a good reason.

soapbox I am not judging any or all headteachers
it is an analogy, not an example
and yes, clearly, the application would be down to the headteacher
who might get it wrong

quanglewangle - very good point, i very much agree with you there. It isnt compulsory that kids go on these holidays, so what do they do when every one else is away. I was quite often asked to go away on these holidays with my school, my parents just couldnt afford more than one holiday a year so I never went. I cant remember being jealous when everyone else came back talking about the holiday and i couldnt join in.

Also, what happens when the school closes for bad weather condition or the heating breaks down, which has happened quite a bit in our local school. Surely that must disrupt classes just as much.

Generally, for parents that encourage their kids at school, ensure that they are fit for a full day of education, support the school, I cant see that missing 10 days of school a year is such a big deal in Primary School.

Just consider, those of you who take your children on holidays during term time because it's cheaper, how much of a hissy fit you would have if teachers had the same attitude.

The fact is, taking holidays in term time sends the message that education is not as important as swanning around on the beach in the Canarys. If teachers said 'Sod it, nothing much happens in the weeks pre and post holidays and it's cheaper for me to go on holiday', the boards would be awash with indignant parents griping about how appalling it is.

As a teacher I have to mop up the fallout from inconsiderate parents who treat schools as babysitting services for their little angels. I's a nightmare dealing with them because they do very little before they go (it's nearly the holidays) and sweet FA after they come back (But Miss....I've only just got back!', for the next 3 weeks). What does this say to children? That education is less important than sunbathing? That it's your right to have foreign holidays? It's the 'ME' generation gone mad.

The occasional ill realtive/ageing grandparents in far off lands/once in a lifetime opportunity to attend family reunions aside, there is no excuse for treating state funded education with such contempt.

I'm with expat. We are in a really difficult situation this year in that we have family in two different countries outside the UK. My dad lives alone, is elderly and not very well, he expects us to spend as much of the summer holiday as possible with him. DH's grandmother is over ninety and has recently been diagnosed with cancer so we want to visit with the kids (on the basis of this will be the last time) but it's too far and too expensive for a short visit. I am going to write to both the boys' schools next week and try and get their agreement to two weeks absence sometime before the holidays. I don't want to p**s off the schools because I am very happy with them and I know DS1 particuarly really can't afford to miss any lessons, but life isn't always ideal.

I also wondered what people think of holidays organised by schools which take place during term time. My children are at Primary and until recently these holidays were for the final year pupils who had completed their SATS. This has now been extended to include Year 5. In our school there is some educational merit (visit to a museum and a wildlife park I think) but the emphasis is most definitely on the fun and social aspects. The children who do not go will, I assume, have to join a lower Year group.

slug, I don't think it is treating education with contempt. I think it is taking and making opportunities. And benefiting from the experience. Education doesn't just take place in a classroom, though modern day thinking seems to think it does. Languages seem to be suffering these days and swanning around Paris in a bus with your peers does little to persuade that a foreign language might be useful. Pottering around Italy with your family and an inadequate phrase book might.

I agree that time out during A levels is a bit excessive unless there were extraordinary circumstances. But does this have to affect you? When I was at school we had to catch up ourselves, whatever the reason for our absence. We wouldn't have dreamt of expecting a teacher to bail us out.

And also when there is a whole class outing to somewhere, the whole class goes. We all know that they will be going, so plan out lessons accordingly. So if you were going to teach lesson three in a sequence of five, you teach it next lesson instead.

When a child is missing, you simply don't have time to teach the missing lesson again!

My curriculum time is so limited, and I have so much to teach every lesson contains new work. And each lesson builds on the last, so if you miss one, next lesson is even harder to pick up the thread. Lessons are taught in 5 lesson topics for the lower school.

If a child misses a week of biology at KS4 they will miss 2 lessons out of a sequence of 12. If they have a holiday of 2 weeks they will miss arounf a third of a modules work....they do 4 modules in biology. They will miss a comparable amount of physics and chemistry too, if they are doing double science. This is a vast amount for them to catch up on.

qw, sixthform students nowerdays are often spoon fed. One of my students skived a lesson to go to a gig. He asked me to give up my lunch to help him to catch up. I told him, on your bike!

bollocks my kids will be "sick"

i cant afford a shaggin holiday in the holidays. and my kids deserve a holiday - fuck me i deserve a holiday with my kids. theres memories you can't buy, relationship stuff you cant educate for.

6 school days gives me 9 holiday days. ofcourse i am not doing it this year - its GCSE year. but any other year the legislators can kiss my dick.

HERE HERE MB you've said it all - i read the earlier posts too. Those parents shouldn't complain when the results are opened or when they are sitting around the house without a job or a future - maybe they can look at their holiday snaps together.

I wish i could find them statistics they tell you how 'x' amount of lost schools days impacts upon SAT's levels and GCSE grades. Our Head did an assembly on it to frighten the students re all types of non attendance. (did something similar with staff re cover costs also)

Yes but MB, I am trying to compare like with like i.e. a few days holiday - not just a day trip for the whole class.
If, say, the French set go to France
a) not all of them go (school trips aren't cheap)
b) it impacts on all their other subjects. It isn't just French lessons they are missing. A sunbstantial proportion of the each subject must end up with some catching up to do.

This doesn't bother me one little bit, I just feel that if they can catch up from school trips thay can catch up from family hols.

It just seems to be all or nothing, some of you seem to thing that things in moderation dont count.

I have missed out on holidays arranged by the school (skiing etc) as my family couldnt afford it, so not every child does do these trips. So how disruptive was that to me!!!!!

I also dont think that the only place that a child gets education is in the classroom. In fact, I have been on far more educational holidays with my family than I have school days out with the school. And I dont just mean expensive foreign holidays.

School does have its place, but so does family time, and I think the way that the way society is going at the moment we ought to encourage more family time, not make it more difficult.

What is worse, a chld that comes in to school exhausted after playing computer games till 2 in the morning and not having decent food, so no concentration at all. Or a child from a family that supports the school in every other way but just takes them on a weeks holiday in term time.

And I am only talking about Infant school here, secondary school is a different matter.

Also, what happens when a child is sick, I guess they still have to catch up and they manage.

In the ideal world perhaps this wouldnt happen, but in the ideal world every school would be as good as an other, every teacher would be fantastic at their job. I struggled at Maths all through secondary school as the Maths teacher couldnt control the class and was being bullied by one of the pupils, my exam results in Maths were terrible.

So I belive things in moderation, and if that mean I take my kids out of school for 1 week then so be it. After all, as long as you have permission its allowed!

tbh, I get pissed off when kids go on those trips too!

My GCSE scientists miss a week to do PE coursework. I realise that they do need to go on this trip....it forms part of their GCSE PE qualification.....but theu never catch up and they always suffer. It is like fire on my skin when they go

I was ready the local paper today and this story has made it the local rag in ITALY!!!!

They can't quite understand what the problem is?

Wouldn't it be nice for the teachers on this board to be able to take the opportunity of cheap holidays outside term time for their kids.
Non-attendance does have an affect on pupils performance, in or out of an exam year.
In fact, the earlier it starts, the worse it ends up. Quite simply the wrong message is being set.
I will offer extra-curricular help to any student who asks it, but not if they have been absent for a holiday. I even grudge having to give up my non-contact time to supply work for the pupils who ask for it cos they're "going to see their Auntie in Canada for three weeks".
Do not kid yourselves - a teachers time is tight and any lesson missed, leaves the pupils behind. FACT.

Fob, I am also happy togive up time to help kids. I give up a break and a lunch time every week for catch up sessions, and other times and a less regular basis. But I will not do this if people choose to take their child out of school. their choice, their responsibility

QW A lot of those language trips are heavily supplements by work that they do when they are their in workbooks etc (well they are in our school) you have a point about catching up and I have to agree again with MB its v annoying to other subjects also. Departments are constantly competing for additional time to complete work or for revision so any absence is disruptive.

In fact our skiing trip went out at half term the last two years. Anyway poor sods who orgnaise those deserve a medal (if they don't get sued or locked up!)

oh and by the way mb. i go back to work full time next week, and i will not be hanging about after school quite so much to catch up on things that should be done in my non-contact time, as my priority now is ds.
also - as a bf mother i should be able to take time to express milk off too, but how can i do that when wee flossie wants the homework sheet she missed from last week cos she was off and george in s4 is now cacking his pants about his impending standard grade and wants extra tuition to make sure his pieces are up to standard!?(I teach music btw)
i'm also going back to a chaotic dept as they never properly replaced my post when i went on maternity leave, so i have a lot of "roping in" to do with my classes, esp. the 1st years.
If parents can work in conjunction with their school rather than treat it, and it's rules with contempt, and don't forget teachers have wee babies to look after too, then maybe there wouldn't be this bloody hoo-haa on here!
[wink}

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I'm with you Jenkel. I'm find this a bit of a big issue to have hard and fast rules about - are we talking primary, secondary, 2 days, 2 weeks, all or nothing? I think the stage of schl is important. Mine are at early stg primary so can't feel too bad about it but maybe just trying to justify to myself!!
I would never expect a teacher to give up time to prep a secondary schl pupil who is behind because of hols - in my day too it was a case of being given the pg nos in a bk and catching up on your own. Like many, I think everything in moderation but maybe what some of the teachers are saying here is some don't take it in "moderation".