Something EVERY parent of a child in a UK State school should know about

[QualifiedTeacher]

The UK Government has new proposals to allow non qualified teachers to teach in UK schools. This means our children?s education may be placed in the hands of teachers without basic qualifications such as English and Maths GSCE let alone a Bachelors degree. This policy will mainly be affecting children from the lower economic backgrounds and the reasoning behind employing unqualified teachers is simply because it costs less.

I have attached an epetition which gives more information and is asking for signatures to oppose the use of unqualified teachers in UK State schools. If the numbers signing this petition is large enough, we can get the debate discussed in the UK Parliament. Please help and protect the education of all UK children in State schools.

Thanks

Once again - I'm interested in hearing why you think primary and secondary teachers should be paid differently, mam29, and which way around!

In the school where I teach support staff are salaried and earn roughly the same as a newly qualified teacher. They are very experienced and well qualified.

I posted this earlier, 40% of applicants for HLTAs, TAs, and CSs are qualified teachers. They are applying for these posts because there are too many teachers in all subjects. The idea that there is a teaching shortage is a myth. 50,000 unemployed teachers and rising.

Some of the teachings applying for these roles are on the Upper Pay Scale and are having to take a HUGE pay cut to keep themselves in employment in schools.

When you talk about a great TA, you don't know whether he/she is a qualified teacher working as a TA or not. Just as the same way you don't know whether a bad teacher is an unqualified teacher or not. This practice is already taking place the government has only made it official.

They are also applying for these posts because they are sick of the teaching workload and the negative effect on family life QT.

Not the ones I know mrz.

The ones I know are doing it because they on upper pay scale and can't get back into classroom teaching because of the number of NQTs who as you know are much, much cheaper. I know of scenarios where a former HoD (from a different school) is currently working as a TA to an NQT.

Then you need to read posts on MN QT

mrz what is MN?

This website

feemie sorry forgot to answer that question.

this is opinion of one of my freinds a senior teacher i guess if head of department at secondry.

im assuming hes refering that payscales/bands are same at secomdry/primary level -im not a in teaching profession so unsure detail on what he means but if was going on what he says.

i would say secondry school teaching more challanging academically and behaviour wise than primary in some schools althpugh was surprised at new other week about violence at primary level and suspensions.

Mn-mumsnet?

'I'd like all children to be fired with enthusiasm by teachers who really care about learning'

I think we are all agreed about this which is why the majority of people on this thread are arguing that it is better to have qualifed teachers (who have proved their commitment, enthusiasm and competence by completing their training over those people who haven't) who are well paid rather than unqualfied teachers who are not paid.

MrsG, your attitudes are baffling.

I wonder, would you also argue, that accepting doctors and nurses without qualifications and paying them the minimum wage would improve standards in the NHS?

Yes mam teachers get paid the same whether they teach 4 year olds or 18 year olds depending on experience and responsibility ... obviously your friend thinks he works harder

Mam29, I am a secondary teacher and take my hat off to primary teachers who are doing an amazing job. I certainly don't believe they should be paid less than we do, in fact I believe we all should be paid MORE.

Too many side issues here. I don't think anybody is arguing that TAs are a bad thing but they have totally different roles from teachers.

Also, I cannot imagine any TAs actually wanting to routinely teach whole classes with all the responsibilities that this involves on their salary. This is simply exploitation.

I used to work with qualified teachers who have taken learning support roles so although their job was to support the usual class teacher by working with individual statemented pupils, if the usual class teacher was off sick they WOULD be expected to cover the class since they had QTS. Even they used to hate it when this happened because this wasn't the job they had chosen. Often they'd moved into learning support because they just didn't like whole class teaching and found working with individuals more rewarding but at least they were qualified, experienced and paid as teachers.

I really do wonder who these people are that MrsGuy imagines queuing up to do the work of a teacher on the minimum wage but who don't want to actually train as teachers and get paid as such and what on earth makes her think such people would make better teachers. It is utterly bizarre.

There are many TA, HLTA, CSs awaiting the challenge.

I have friends who tell me they would never teach, no matter what the salaries are. Some people have an idea of it, and stay far, far away.

QT A very good TA->teacher conversion course was discontinued a couple of years ago. We had a few excellent TA students through school on this course - they had all the classroom management skills already, and just had to concentrate on planning, delivery and assessment.

My TA isn't a graduate and wanted to become a teacher, but all avenues apart from completing a degree course are now closed to her. She has NVQ Level 3, and this counted for nothing. She cannot afford to do a degree course, which is why the TA/teacher conversion course within a school would have been perfect for her.

FB, why doesn't she look at applying to be a registered teacher? She needs a diploma level qualification, which I think her NVQ Level 3 is, a university to support her academically (I know Kent at Canterbury support some RTs but not many do) and of course a school to do the placement. It can take a bit longer to do, they do a needs anaylsis thingie but at the end she will have full QTS and be entitled to be on MP1 and move up the payscale.

Pity she didn't think of doing this a few years ago but I know a few RTs still in training, in fact three. I got one on this track, so proud of that!

Check it out in September.

Too late QT!

From Dfe:
The Registered Teacher Programme (RTP) is now closed to new applicants.
This closure, effective from the academic year 2012/13 onwards, is in line with the Department for Education's implementation plan (PDF, 134KB) and priorities, which have been consistently clear on the principle that undergraduate trainees will be expected to bear the cost of their training.

We will write to providers of the RTP in the coming weeks with further details on its closure. In the meantime, any immediate issues can be raised with the allocations team at [email protected]

Sorry to hear that FB.

I did a 4yr degree, 8-12 wks teaching practise each year and several practical school based assignments plus a year as an NQT (newly qualified teacher) and still had a lot to learn im still learning now 12 yrs later. I can see the difference between myself and friends who did the 1yr PGCE so i cant imagine an untrained teacher :( this is not just about teachers for teachers. I know how long it takes to become a competent teacher. At the very least doing a teaching degree gives you time in schools to gain this experience and for young 18 year olds to mature a bit.

I don't think it matters how many years you have been teaching, you are still learning and hopefully becoming a better teacher. I worry about those teachers who leave university thinking they are the finished article.

I'm never the finished article more a work progress.

definately agree mrz. I do think doung a teaching degree gives you time to be reflective and consider what type of teacher you do/do not want to be. It is also easier to make mistakes and learn from them whilst being supervised. You cant do any of this whilst working as a ft teacher i do my reflecting after planning etc when i should be getting my beauty sleep

How will people become teachers then? A practical apprentice type scheme? More practical experience could only be a good thing.

'I really do wonder who these people are that MrsGuy imagines queuing up to do the work of a teacher on the minimum wage but who don't want to actually train as teachers and get paid as such and what on earth makes her think such people would make better teachers. It is utterly bizarre. '

Precisely. Under the current system, a graduate wanting to do GTP is paid between £15-27k for their GTP year (depends on location, quals & relevant experience).

This notion that the country is positively hooching with unrecognised teaching talent that's being unreasonably blocked from the classroom is just such manifest bollocks.

Those who will actually be employed under this will be:
a) people without the qualifications needed to get onto a PGCE or GTP who are taken on as cheap warm bodies, mostly in non-Ebacc subjects
b) people with quite respectable degrees who fancy a year or so teaching because they can't get a job elsewhere, & CBA to qualify because they have no plans to make a career out of it

Some of them might potentially be brilliant, of course - I can see an argument for a'provisional licence' type system where an unqualified teacher can be taken on on a short term contract which can only be made permanent if they go on to qualify.

The main purpose of this measure, as far as I can see, is to 'asset strip' academies by slashing the wage bill before Gove allows them to be sold off to for-profit companies if the Tories get another term.