Something EVERY parent of a child in a UK State school should know about

[QualifiedTeacher]

The UK Government has new proposals to allow non qualified teachers to teach in UK schools. This means our children?s education may be placed in the hands of teachers without basic qualifications such as English and Maths GSCE let alone a Bachelors degree. This policy will mainly be affecting children from the lower economic backgrounds and the reasoning behind employing unqualified teachers is simply because it costs less.

I have attached an epetition which gives more information and is asking for signatures to oppose the use of unqualified teachers in UK State schools. If the numbers signing this petition is large enough, we can get the debate discussed in the UK Parliament. Please help and protect the education of all UK children in State schools.

Thanks

We had a "negative increase" (= budget cut ... so why can't they say that) in budget this year and look forward to another next year

Sorry FB. I worked in a leafy area and the estate agents and all the small businesses where regularly contributing funds to the school. I am always assuming this is the case. They paid for the whole rugby team to go to South Africa one year and a brand new recording studio the next. But it's probably not the case in all leafty areas.

Sorry. You guys are going to have a tough time too. I just thought because some of the lower income parents may be forced to leave your neighbourhoods, it may not impact as badly.

There is a mode of appeal for keeping your HB at the current level if can be proved their education will be affected by being moved out of the school , (and made homeless) yes this is the criteria.

It's gonna be mad.

Problem with the 'leafy areas' is that NQTs can't afford to live there.....

RustyBear, exactly, and in the deprived areas, there is more competition for that reason i.e. cheaper rent. Sometimes the 'leafy' areas don't pay as well also because they may be outter London payscale etc. Good point.

My area would be viewed as 'leafy'. A one-bedroom flat will cost £700-900 pm (about £200K to buy). There is no key worker housing, and NIMBY parish council members in the villages hold their hands up in horror at the idea of social housing. We don't get any kind of London weighting, not even fringe allowance.

So no, not many NQTs can afford to live around here, unless they are living with another wage-earner, have a personal income or live with their parents.

And we mustn't forget that many of the young NQTs also have crippling student loans.

A french person with good english educated to degree standard to teach french as decline in modern languages in uk.

What on earth makes you think that someone simply being French would make them a good French teacher? I've taught a bit of MFL although it was completely outside of my subject specialism (maths) because the school needed to fill a gap and some of my degree was in the MFL required (I studied at a foreign university for a year) so my language skills were perfectly up to the job.

Dear god it was tough. Despite being a qualified teacher, I wasn't trained to teach MFL (although I read up on it) and time and again I realised how important subject specific training is.

Expecting someone who is simply good at the subject to be able to parachute in and start teaching successfully is ludicrous. And I already had the classroom management skills so had a major headstart.

The rents are actually cheaper than Inner London although the properties are in many cases more expensive to buy!

I spoke to a lady who was in senior management for a top housing association and she said that the cuts to HB could be beneficial because landlords would have to bring the rents down.

If rent of £180 a week for a property worth £150,000 is going on in some Inner City boroughs and rent of £700-900 is going on for properties worth £200,000 in leafy areas then something isn't adding up.

I live in a leafy area
my child goes to school in a leafy catchment
its va school so they have to raise 10%of their own budget anyway.
our la is one of lowest funded in uk yet we have drived areas with la and 2miles from border of neighbouring la which gets more but does worse so because of distance people travel from their la to schools in ours its very common to seek out of catchment.

Yet despite the more money the schools in neighbouring la get poor results.

thowing money at situation alone doesnt solve the issue.

The heads already said the budgets been cut and things will be tight.
i know this as on pta but I suspect many parents will not realise this and maybe think education is ringfenced but think only areas that ringfenced is health and overseas aid.

I was just trying to logically think earlier how schools can keep costs down.how do you keep costs down without decreasing quality.

Im amagine headmasters have to be business managers as well as academic stuff in balancing how the school budget will be spent.

probably get shot down in flames for saying this.

but in some cases and subjects if bringing in specialists on cheaper wages such as football coach might be cost effective but also give the school an adavantage.

As think pe could be taught by other people not with qts.
unless its not just pe anymore its sport sceince?

I dont think this is true for all subjects so think government should proceed with caution. From what I gather most music in primaries is outsourced anyway.

I do really feel for the newly qualified teachers

no jobs
low wages
debts

older teachers on senior level

are better off as dident have these issues.

plus in bad schools suppose turnover high but in the good schools people stay in the job a long time. which results in a school teaching team being lots of expensive teachers if they all senior grade.

teachings a vocation not a job.

although can see how my teacher freinds with kids feel it has its benefiits not just pay but fits in well with their family life.

since having kids realised few jobs other than education fit in well around family life, pay well with good benefits.

I used to work in retail managment and companies always trying to drive down costs one of those being wages so things they did was

employ the under 21 as cheaper min wage.

temporary-low hours contract-then flex up with overtime when needed.

6weeks holiday a year think holiday increased 1day per year in company.

keeping large mix of part timers rather than full time magic 16hours amount before company starts paying ni comtributions.

when i started in retail i got triple time on a sunday then decreased to double now i think its day in lieu or normal rate.

salaried staff dont get overtime rates.

employer led contributry pensions -non existant.

tesco does not pay for 1st 3days of sick

3strikes instances in one rolling year could result in dismissal or disiplinary action.

a lot are expected to work so many weekends and bank holidays on shop floor and especially with management.

typical avarage week for me was 50hours that was the culture and worked for a few companies.

I had freinds and family who worked in retail for years and the redundancy package was tiny a week pay for every year.
I have done consultations, shut down stores, helped people reapply for their jobs it was very depressing.

what im trying to say is most people in the private sector would say teachers really dont have it that bad.

we all have the pressures of high rents/house prices.
living costs.

i looking at the school budget as whole I would split it into

resources-if cut back on resources then that will have knock on effect on teaching

facilities-this ones far more visual-the building schools for future was very expensive as was ppi so schools be paying for that in considerable futuure.

The one thats hidden is wages. I expect even teachers in theiur own schools have no idea of the wage budget and who gets what.

im not talk valerie gets 21k

im saying ahh we

have 5grade 1 paid teachers

8 grade 2 ect

how much do we spend on supply/agency teaching?

how many tas do we have what to they cost?

the total cost og wages

how much as %is wages out of school budget?

only recently a nhs trust became bankrupt.

could that happend to an academy if they dont control their costs?

I know a school is not a shop.
but the parents and the children are the customers.
we pay for its through our taxes.
we expect the schools to mange themselves well add value and provide a good education despite their budgets being cut.

my question is somethings got to give somewhere?

as co-alition keep telling us we have no money we broke.

I do think schools should have fair balance of staff

so some experienced mature teachers
and some new qts or younger teachers.

I guess the problems in schoolls where large%are on top salary /grade that presents a strain on wage budget as whole which means they employ less staff or have to use cheaper staff to do certain jobs.

like subcontracting school dinners/cleaning ect.

do the goverenemnt want to make this decision or they making is as it needs to be done?

mam29 the decision has been made and was announced on 27th July 2012 and was effective immediately.

mam29

"but in some cases and subjects if bringing in specialists on cheaper wages such as football coach might be cost effective but also give the school an adavantage.

As think pe could be taught by other people not with qts.
unless its not just pe anymore its sport sceince?"

At the risk of repeating myself

Your football coach will have to teach
Football
tennis
rugby
athletics (track and field)
Basketball
volleyball
badminton
swimming
cricket
softball
handball
Hockey
and many more with all of the varients.

on top of this they with have to teach biology and physiology.

P.E is not just kicking a ball around
Food Tech is not just cooking
Woodwork doesn't exist as a subject anymore.

mam29

"I guess the problems in schoolls where large%are on top salary /grade that presents a strain on wage budget as whole which means they employ less staff or have to use cheaper staff to do certain jobs."

The top end staff don't just teach they also have department or whole school responibilities.

And to add to BBJ there are issues with safety for instance, girls who are having heavy periods and sport, also special needs, children with disabilities e.g. learning disabilities who may easily get injured, physical difficulties who HAVE to be included in every activity as its all Equal Ops. What physical activities can you provide for a child in a wheelchair that is related to the sport in question etc and it has to be as varied as it is for able bodied children. You have to understand the medical reports to know what you should not do. All this stuff is covered in training.

A lot of PE teachers now cater for Dance and some are teaching it up to GSCE and A Level although they do get in subject specialist for the practical sides, but cover all the other bits. In my last school the dance subject specialist is now training to be a QT! When I was doing contemporary dance classes, a PE teacher was studying it because she is now covering GSCE dance and she was really good.

well aplogies if oversimplified it dident seem that pe teachers had that much responsability when i was in comp.

In comp we did

move around as sport each term.

one teacher would do swimming, and mostly boys sports,
the female teachers were hockey, netball, gymnastics

we were sometimes mostly split into boys/girls.

no dance or exiting sports.

we did occasional cross country
athaletics in summer shot put, long jump, running, javalin but we were mostly rubbish at it,.

was bog standard comp.

you guys missed my point

i meant someone brought in just to teach football-ensure they have handover in what special medical needas,disabilities certain individuals have and up to date 1st aid certificate and let them do just football if they used to coaching team of kids similar ages they maybe able to raise the standard.

Then bring in separate person to teach dance, rugby, athaletics.

This could free up pe teachers time so they could maybe focus on the physiology and biology or allow them to focus and identify nurture the more talented pupils only just had another thread about how few olympic competitors come from state schools.

from outside looking in does seem like teachings become complicated and the subjects so broad?surly theres a case that more specialist teaching may benefit the pupils.

what do private schools do?
are their pe teachers qualified?
do they specialise or one person teach 10diffrent sports?

have no idea what food tech is these days.
i dident continue dt at gcse when did it year 7-9 every term we rotated between woodwork, sewing and cooking. we had specialist teachers for each.

I would hope that food tech maybe covers basic food hygeine
how to budget and measure
how to cook.

but no doubt its far more complex than that

probably covers allergies
how to be healthy
how food is packaged.

as for the mix of payscales.

i would expect head teacher, heads of years and heads of department get paid the most. That wouldent change over the years that figure would remain static unless you added an extra year or extra department.

but what im saying is there are many different grades and payscales.

can a teacher whos been there 20 years be on high salary just though yearly annual increment?and cost much more than the young newly qualified graduates. another thing about teaching is retrospective.

can the teacher that taught me and my mum.
have been through same training and have same amount of qualifications as newer teachers?

my 1dt teacher taught my mum in secondry modern then moved to the grammer when it became and inclusive comp.

The change was academies only.
From what I gather they are independant of la.
they control their budget
if they overspend they wont be bailed out by la

A lot of academies here are offering extra subjects.

i imagine they just trying to get the most value out of the school budget for good of the pupils.

I think this change has been brought in due to neccesity rather than want.

If they bring in expensive specialists to coach various sports it definitely wouldn't 'free up PE teachers' to concentrate on physiology, it would make lots of PE teachers redundant, and you'd be left with one PE teacher to teach the rest. The specialists would be more expensive than a PE teacher I'd have thought.

Plus loads of specialists will be an admin nightmare. If the child has a skill in a particular sport the PE teacher could advise avenues for the child to develop their skills elsewhere.

A teacher who just teaches would advance to MPS 6 £32,000.
An NQT would start on £22,000
This doen't include london weighting.

As soon as you go through the Upper pay scale (this is being changed) you get more but this is dependent on the teacher taking more responsibility.

"can the teacher that taught me and my mum.
have been through same training and have same amount of qualifications as newer teachers? "
that would depend on your age I know of no teachers where I am that do not have a degree and QTS, the previous incarnation of teachers without QTS would be at or beyond retirement age.

the previous incarnation of teachers without QTS would be at or beyond retirement age. and many of them gained the qualification and status by study in their own time

I believe the first mandatory degree courses started in 1975.

My dm and dmil did 2 year CertEd just after the war, when there was a shortage of teachers.

I know some retired teachers and the CertEd I was told was intensive. Loads of theory, you know Gardiner and that bloke with his 'scaffolding of learning' Vygotsky etc with lesser time in school. She said it would have been beneficial if they had spent more time in school and less time on learning all the theory. But those CertEds were probably today's Masters level academically. After all that theory, and about 8-12 weeks over 2 years, they then went out and taught.

But alas the kids were sweeter then and there was also the cane!

8-12 weeks refers to teach in school on placements.

Qualified Teacher.
When I did my PgCE a Cert. Ed was for those wanting to teach who didn't have a degree. Many who took this were teachers I referred to who had subjects where degrees weren't applicable. They were mostly vocational such as painting and decorating, plumbing, Public services, florestry etc. I don't know how this works in compulsory ed.

The CertEds I was referring to were for teaching in primary and secondary schools unlike the one you did. I know a retired Secondary Art, Photography, Music and Science teacher who took it. The CertEd also used to train Music teachers to teach in primary and secondary back in those days.

I only asked as my mum grew up in small rural market town

where there was secondry modern and grammer

at least 3of her old teachers moved to the grammer when the modern shut down.the grammer converted into comp the only comp in that area.

The 1 taught home ec which was sewing and cookery.
she was a dragon not very popular dident learn a lot.
my mum hated her
my older cousin by 10years older than me hated her
then me.

im 32 so now so seniors was 1992 to 1997.

the other was mystery must ask what he taught as he taught us computers which they dident have so guess he changed subjects he truly was crap and used to sit at his computer ignoring the class.

the 3rd was pe teacher who was strict shouty and definatly prefered the boys. I nearly drowned in his swimming classes.

all 3 were crap. even without my teen age agnst i look back and think yes they truly were crap wasent just me.

Most of us who went to uni moved away.

a few who had kids young who stayed now have kids in that comp se eon fb some names mentioned and me and my freind said other day cant believe they still teaching. it was back then a job for life and dont think age is barrier in teaching always reading in local rag about teachers who leaving after 30years in the same school.

Just wondered if theres a disparity in the schools with teachers who been there forver are they higher as they been their that long or did they take on extra responsabilities. Are they as qualifiied was their training as rigorous as modern teacher training now?

of course my comp had good and bad teachers.the aclcholic music teacher who hits kids went quietly retired on grounds of ill health think its rare for teacher to lose their job if not good enough.

As a pupil some teacher definatly seemed clever than others.
some couldent control a class and as result was chaos.

yet they all had the same training some of its down to training, some experience some the personality of the person themselves.

would several specialists be more expensive than several high grade pe teachers? if paid by the hour. if not paid for holidays?

Do teachers in private schools have qts?
how do they manage?

whats the best route for teacher training

secondry -degree in chosen subject then pgce in that subject?
at primary ba 4year degree in early years /primary

or degree in maths, english, science then a pgce in primary.

would a young person who did media or sports at degree then do pgce be well equipped to teach all subjects well at primary level? esoecailly if they just scraped a c pass in maths and english
?

I thourght the starting salary for teacher was lower than £22k if thats ouside london thats still a good wage when compare to lots other jobs.

Do any teachers on here get frustrated that you better than other teachers in your school?

will it ever be equal a school will consist of many diffrent types of people, job roles and levels of qualifications.

also know ones asked the question

ok the laws changed.

how many people would want to do and apply to do the job knowing that the teachers get paid more?

how popular will this be?
how many schools will it impact on more.
I asume they wont lay off teachers.
it will be through peopole retiring and rehiring new people.

I would say the threats not too existing teachers
its to unmployed ones and those currently training.

educations become all free market in terms of teachers, tas.
schools academy. private, free school.
i imagine the la schools will stay the same as always.