Something EVERY parent of a child in a UK State school should know about

[QualifiedTeacher]

The UK Government has new proposals to allow non qualified teachers to teach in UK schools. This means our children?s education may be placed in the hands of teachers without basic qualifications such as English and Maths GSCE let alone a Bachelors degree. This policy will mainly be affecting children from the lower economic backgrounds and the reasoning behind employing unqualified teachers is simply because it costs less.

I have attached an epetition which gives more information and is asking for signatures to oppose the use of unqualified teachers in UK State schools. If the numbers signing this petition is large enough, we can get the debate discussed in the UK Parliament. Please help and protect the education of all UK children in State schools.

Thanks

From my experience its the TA's that do most of the teaching anyway. Mostly 1 to 1 but without them half the kids in the class wouldn't get the subject matter being taught by the teacher.

Bollocks - depends on the teaching and whether it is precisely matched to the attainment of the pupils.

Do any classes have TAs at your school mrz?

We have one TA and one HLTA

It is depressing, but predicatable that there is an instant knee-jerk reaction against any kind of innovation. Ok, assume the position that is entrenched on this thread and in the teaching 'profession' ie that 'only 'qualified' teachers can manage classrooms'. Why assume the status quo is immutable and that a 'class' teacher' has to have a group of 30? .Why not take in more diverse types of people, who can teach those small groups without behavioural problems, thus improving their learning experience, and taking pressure off the school budgets? win/win. The qualified teachers can then use all their skills in pivot tables while those with an interest in learning and teaching do simply that? No reason not to have a matrix approach - with a bit of imagination and willingness to adapt. (Or is the willingness to adapt, or lack of it, the seminal issue?

How would taking on more people take pressure off school budgets, MrsGuy?

Damn there is no hope for me ... I don't have any pivot tables either

FB

Glad to hear your DH did that. The first I've heard of it. Wonderful lady, this is just the spirit we need.

Re MTPP, I don't have a TA during most of my lessons and only need their help setting up classes and equipment etc, nor do most teachers. It depends on some schools. TA funding is usually provided for a specific child and some schools use TAs to support the teacher or to work solely with one child.

If the child with funding for a TA is in a classroom context, then the TA should be brought into the teaching and learning and work alongside the teacher. If the TA is working 1 to 1, then that's different.

I've said this many times the person working as a TA may be a QT working as a TA. You can not make sweeping statements about TAs or QTs unless you know exactly who is doing what. There are loads and loads of QTs working as TAs, HLTAs, LSA, CSs because there is a shortage of QTs posts. A lot of older teachers on UPS are working as TAs because being older and more expensive they have been shall we say, persuaded to take voluntarily redundancies etc. Some feel unable or are reluctant to work in any other environment.

Just because a teacher is working 1 to 1 does not mean he or she is a TA. Many QTs would LOVE to work 1 to 1 and eventually get to. Unless you have access to all these QTs and TAs CVs, don't make generalisations, please. It doesn't help the argument. Just as the so called 'bad' teachers some else mentioned could possibly be unqualifed teachers working as QTs on a TA salary. This may be why their alleged 'badnesses' are being tolerated.

I agree with FB, Gove is cutting the school budget by 20%, where is the money coming from for these brilliant unqualfied teachers you so badly want?

MrsG you and Gove would have a lot in common in principle, as a lot of what he says impresses us all. Things like, 'I would like to see more QTs teaching SEN children and less TAs.' Who could fault that? 'I would like all children to achieve regardless of their disadvantages.' Who could fault that?

But it is the things he actually does that completely undermines what he has said. Everything you suggest doing involves MORE MONEY. This government is about cutting back on public sector spending, schools included. This government is about creating more employment in the private sector, so the brilliant unqualified teachers you dream of having teaching your children are probably going to want to work somewhere else. Honest.

mrz, you are worried about your lack of 'pivot' tables, I am more worried about not having the ultra long black leather coat and the sunglasses for the 'matrix approach.' Who would fund them?

Maybe the pay scale should be abolished with just an agreed salary,and those teachers expecting HT's to do voluntary work should be prepared to do voluntary themselves. After all nurses and doctors at all levels work many hours they aren't paid for. Then we could see who really wanted to teach!!!

Also if the gov got rid of the deadwood. i.e QTs without a Degree in an academic subject it might be worth sending our dcs and I might consider it. I think its good that education is having a shake up. Its about time. Although I do sympathise with TA's who don't want to take extra responsibility and feel forced to.

The average full time teacher works a 60 hour week and uses most of their 12 weeks holidays preparing for the next academic term or year.

Working voluntary means not getting a salary at all it does not mean not working additional unpaid hours. All staff in schools are specialist at working additional unpaid hours.

No QT but MrsG says that if TAs take over teaching duties it will free me to do my pivot tables

Qualified teacher. I think any costs that occur from Goves new schools will be funded by pushing out all the far too expensive teachers we have today. It does cost rather alot in teachers pay when you are talking £27k upwards.

Someone said teachers didn't have an idea about the real world ... I don't think some posters have an idea about the reality of school

Hear hear Mrz

MTPP

How much do Cabinet Ministers get paid?

Cabinet ministers receive a salary of £134,565 (including MP's salary of £65,738).

www.parliament.uk/about/faqs/house-of-commons-faqs/members-faq-page2/

I remember a post on another website where probably MrsG and MTPP's friend was under the impression that 'teachers get free houses and stuff like that.'

Does anybody know how you get a free house as a teacher because I asked the poster and he did not respond? And if so, could you tell me how the 'Free houses for teachers' scheme' works?

Thanking you in advance.

Here's a useful site, morethan.
Salaries in UK

Perhaps you could start by comparing the salary of a teacher to a bin man, and carry on from there.

I understand what you are saying mrz and honestly the majority of time I have alot of respect for teachers. Well the good ones anyway.

I just think there are many issues and concerns surrounding the education system and curriculum these days and its not good for teachers atm. However, there are many people with Degrees out there who can't find work.

There are others who have a well paid job and have no worries as to how they will feed their children.
I just think the OP really has nothing to moan about considering he/she went into an occupation knowingly of the consequences that government will change most conditions regularly and often not for the better.

Most teachers do it because they love it, as a calling. I too had issues when I was teaching and was taken advantage of and underpaid, nowhere near the amount the OP suggests. Even less than a TA. I did my best and could I have afforded to stay at that poor pay I would have done, because I loved my job.

Some people including professionals don't automatically earn more money just because of being in service a year longer. Considering this isn't dependent on results/ performance linked, I think teachers have it pretty good.

However, there are many people with Degrees out there who can't find work.

Yes a huge number of them with a teaching qualification in some areas there are more than 100 applicants for each teaching post. These are people with degrees who have committed to an additional year in university to become teachers.

morethan!!
There is a pay freeze at the moment!

From the NUT website:
On 29 November 2011 the Chancellor of the Exchequer gave his Autumn Forecast Statement. In it he talked about the need for ?savings from further restraint on public sector pay.? In particular he referred to a cap on public sector pay increases in the years 2013-14 and 2014-15 and to moves towards regional pay.
Public sector pay cap
The Chancellor said that the country ?could not afford? the 2% public sector pay rise Government departments had assumed for the period after the end of the current pay freeze in August 2013. He said that public sector pay awards would be set at an average of 1% for each of the two years after the pay freeze ends. In his letter to public sector Review Bodies in December 2011, the Chancellor reaffirmed his intention to impose a 1% pay cap.

The decision on regional pay (what an administrational nightmare!) is yet to made.

Oh, I meant to say, that the only pay increases being awarded at the moment are performance-linked.

The problem with the teaching profession, like the the nursing profession is that is not considered a profession but a vocation.

Many of the pioneers in teaching and nursing where nuns and monks, some even went on to become saints.

Teaching has been devalued as a profession and people really expect teachers to live like nuns and monks i.e. sacrificing everything for the love of God, their students etc.

There are still teachers who are nuns and monks but the majority of teachers nowadays are not.

In fact, I think the terms and conditions for being a nun or monk might even be better than for being a teacher. I remember a priest moaning about having only £13,000 a year to live on around 10 years ago. Considering he had a house given to him by the parish, and all those volunteers working in the church, and loads of gifts from parishioners such as 'legs of lamb', 'cakes' etc. It wasn't so bad. I digress.

MrsG

"Why assume the status quo is immutable and that a 'class' teacher' has to have a group of 30? .Why not take in more diverse types of people, who can teach those small groups without behavioural problems"

Why should Qualified teachers only get those with behavioural difficulties?
Why should those that want to teach but can't be bothered to get trained get the "easier" end of the job?
And what happens when the untrained have to take those with behavioural issues because the untrained get better results due to the selective methods of their classes and qualified leave?