How can we stop this madness?

[Clare123]

My ds started school at 4yrs old and 2 weeks. He was too young. We have had a year of being told he is not good at carpet time....and why should he be?

It's so ridiculous that our babies are being made to go to school so young! Does any other country do it? The problem is there is no choice? I knew he wasn't ready, and I was right.

So, what can we do about it? Is there a campaign already?

I have forgotten the starting age for school, but surely you could have delayed it until he was 5?
You are not made to go to school, you do actually have a choice by the way.

I agree it's too young, but the system says that Reception is optional so you don't have to send them then....

And of course, in theory, you could Home Educate, but that's often impractical too.

I massively prefer the system we have up here, where you can genuinely choose for them not to start school till after they turn 5 - I've never understood why the English system couldn't have that bit of flexibility.

Do you think there should be more choice about when they start?

Mine was never good at carpet time in YR. But, now has improved so much. Now at end of Y1.

In other ways he was ready and needed the extra mental stimulation and needed to experience a bit more about how to behave in a group.

Think sitting on the carpet and condsidering others around him was a lesson that he needed to learn away from me.

You know him the best and how happy he's been after all.
You may find yourself surprised at the great leaps he's taken. Have you?
Surely the teacher has taken this into account also.

I do actually agree with you in many respects.

As others have said, your son did not have to start school until the term after his fifth birthday (and not even then if you chose to home educate). You are entitled to defer entry until then, although deferring a full year means you will lose the place and may struggle to get your child into your preferred school. You could certainly have told the school that you were going to defer entry until Easter. They may not have liked it but it is your choice and they would have had to keep the place open for you.

My daughter was 4 years and 2 Weeks old when she started school. I've never been told that she isn't good at carpet time. Her teacher has said 'she's very young'.

Perhaps the issue isn't your DS's age, but the way he is viewed in class?

There will always be some that are young in the year. In fact, DD2 should have been born in September, so should only be starting school this September.

LOL @ not being good at carpet time when you are 4.

4 year olds do not sit still, they run around and play.

I put my DS in school at 4 and it damaged him so badly that I took him out and home-educated and he has never been back.

And yes, he is totally normal and has great social skills.

You could home-ed him till he is older, had my son gone in at 7 he would have been fine.

If I had a year of being told my 3 yr old ds was not good at carpet time, I would be questioning the expectations of the staff and if they are working within the EYFS, tbh, not campaigning to have him not go to school (and yes, my eldest, also a ds, was 4 and 2.5 months when he started school, so, a bit older, but very, very ready - they are all so different ).

Deferment is hard to get now, especially in Glasgow. I have friends who really want to defer but have been told there will not be a place in nursery for that year unless ed psych finds a reason.

I agree 5 is a much better age.

It's your fault for sending him! Why do we need a campaign?

There is very little choice, either you home educate them or they miss out on the gentle reception year.

I believe, as do most teachers, that particularly boys are too young at just 4 years old to start school. Let's face it in the long term English kids are not doing any better than anywhere else, in fact we have more problems with our youths.

I would have liked to have an option for him to start reception later, like in Scotland.

I struggle to understand why other mothers do not support a parents choice to do what is best for their child.

Let me try again.

In England you are entitled to defer entry to later in the year. You can go as late as half term in the summer term if you want. It means the child won't get a full year in reception but nor will they miss it completely.

So you do have a choice. It just doesn't include deferring for a full year and going into Reception.

What do you mean, other mothers?

Aboutlastnight - I know the practicalities of deferment aren't always easy, and you can't be sure of a preschool place, but at least we legally have the option of our children starting P1 after they turn 5 and they aren't made to start with children who have already been there for a year just because we want them to start when they are a bit more ready.

Plus, the earliest they can start up here is 4 1/2 rather than just turned 4, which is another advantage.

In the Dutch system (which my DCs were in) they started on the day after their 4th birthday wherever that was in the year. This meant that there were new reception children almost every week rather than a whole class of newbies at the start of each year. I think this approach worked as each new child got extra attention from the teacher (in two years I dont think I ever saw her without a child on her knee!).

I dont think that starting school is the problem so much as what school contains. Again, in the Dutch system, they didnt start reading/writing until year 3. The years leading up to this were all about learning to go to school, learning the skills whether fine motor skills or the skills of sharing, following instructions etc.

Thank you muminscotland, exactly my point. I know I could have deferred until the Easter, but was strongly discouraged to by the head teacher who said he would be behind his peers acedemically if he missed 2 terms. Either way my ds is at a disadvantage.

Every year lots of parents feel this way, and no one seems to be listening.

This is true. We have found the flip side of deferment is there are P1 classes with children turning 6 just before others turn 5! At DDs nursery there were a lot of five year old boys playing power rangers with three year olds which can create some difficulties.

German friends have been concerned at the 'early' start of school here, but seem happy that P1 is very much geared towards little ones - in Germsny they start aged 7 and it's formal very quickly -straight into three 'Rs' and lots of homework.

There are pros and cons...

Clare123, you have my complete sympathy. Four year old boys are very different creatures to little girls of the same age. I think that children should start school when they are ready, unless there are major special needs.

I don't think early start is so much an issue; but the style of teaching is. I would like to see play-based curricula as default until most the way thru y2.

In California they now effectively have flexible deferrment but I can say a lot against it. Ultimately, it's the most attentive & caring or simply uptight parents who defer, deferment isn't done on need at all.

I think nursery is compulsory in Spain from 3yo so UK not the youngest at all. Northern Ireland is cited as youngest starting age here (academic analysis with mixed conclusions about what is best).

I think that you hit the nail on the head when you said it was a 'gentle start' in Reception.

Reception class is supposed to cater for children aged 4 and 5. They do not, as others have said, like to sit still for any length of time. In my opinion, it is the teacher who has unrealistic expectations of the children she is teaching.

FWIW, my middle boy is a February birthday, so spot on average age for reception, and the teacher in reception was always telling me he wouldn't sit still/ concentrate/stop fidgeting on the carpet. When I dug deeper, I found he always came last to the carpet area, sat at the back/on the edge, and was disengaged. I suggested that the teacher asked him to come to the carpet first, and told him to sit near to her. She said it was his responsibility, and expected me to instill this in him !

His teacher this year (Y1) has taken a different tack. She recognises that he is easily distracted and lives in his imagination, so she has given him his own piece of carpet to sit on at carpet time (keeps him in one place), and regularly engages him through questions, getting him to help, etc.

By the way, his little brother has only just turned 5 last week and is just finishing Reception. He's always first on the carpet, legs crossed, finger on lips, and sits still and listens for hours on end. the little goody goody . It's horses for courses, and a good teacher will meet all needs in the classroom.

The head teacher was out of order saying your son would be behind if you deferred until Easter. If your son was going to Nursery he would have followed exactly the same syllabus (hopefully without the apparently unrealistic expectations of the Reception teacher at this school) so he would not have been behind his peers academically at all.

I agree that starting reception year at 4 for some children is too young. I know school can be delayed until their 5th birthday but that's not really very helpful. My son is an April baby, he couldn't start school soon enough and has done very well all through school (is going into yr 9 in sept) always been above average for all subjects. Given the choice he'd want to be a year ahead of where he is. My daughter is a July baby, not much younger than my son was with starting school, but she was not ready. She has struggled to keep up all the way through school primary school, I believe she would have been better being a year behind where she is now (finishing yr 6). She is younger than her year group in every way - personality, size, academically, development. If we'd had the choice she would have started reception in the sept after her 5th birthday (which is late July) and I honestly believe she would have been better off.

In my experience deferring to 5 years old is not an option. This is because all the local schools are oversubscribed so if you miss the reception entrance you will not gain a place locally in any school at any time. I know plenty of people who moved here after the start of reception and had to travel up to 20 miles to get their children to school.

I think that there should be more flexibility. My son is an August born and was also three months premature so at a massive disadvantage. I am preparing for a battle to keep him in the year he should have been born in. If we defer he will not get a place at our local school and will miss out on reception.

Surely teachers would rather have a class of children who are really ready for school?

My DS was 4yr 6wks in Sept, back then so we deferred to the Jan start date when he was 4 and a half. The OP seem to be saying that this is not the norm in England.

IMO 4 year olds do not invariably have trouble sitting on the carpet when told. Mine went to nursery. I recall going to the open day and seeing the 3-4 yr olds sitting on the carpet during story time and yes, some had difficulty focusing but they all remain seated

I do not claim to be a Super Parent but it does irritate me when parents blame schools for stuff.

Years ago I helped out in with reception age children. A lot depends on the teachers/TA etc. I used to do "carpet time" reading the children a story. I think many people would describe me as very charismatic and fun and in a group of mainly boys they were absolutely glued (Im not trying to blow my own trumpet) I clearly remember reading the one about the bear being left in the park no one moved. When others did it although they read clearly seemed to be shy and told stories in an uninteresting way and the boys rolled on each other and fiddled. In contrast I cant sing at all and used to hate it and be dreadful at leading singing time more rolling and fiddling from the boys!!