How can we stop this madness?

[Clare123]

My ds started school at 4yrs old and 2 weeks. He was too young. We have had a year of being told he is not good at carpet time....and why should he be?

It's so ridiculous that our babies are being made to go to school so young! Does any other country do it? The problem is there is no choice? I knew he wasn't ready, and I was right.

So, what can we do about it? Is there a campaign already?

I refute that 'most teachers' believe children start too early!

some children may start too early, but as a parent you have a choice. Your child does not need to attend school ever, and if you are going to use a school, they do not need to be there until term after they're 5.

At the end of the day though- do you really care that his report says he's no good at carpet time? He's presumably not yet 5 even, and no one will be looking at his Reception report in the future saying 'oh we'd better not admit him to this oxford college because he was poor at sitting still on the carpet in reception.

APMF depends on the 4 yo. My DD is a March baby so was 4 1/2 when starting school. At nursery she was used to being cuddled, picked up and carried. At school all that stops. She rolls, she fidgets. She likes to lie on her back with her legs in the air. We told the school before she started, because she would never sit on the carpet at nursery, so they didn't insist she sat. She has got better over the year but she is still nothing like the other kids in terms of concentrating and maturity.

But luckily we've ended up with an excellent Reception teacher and TA who listen to the parents and take action to ensure that they treat each child according to their needs, rather than force them to all be the same. I am worried about Y1 looming :(

Interesting points about what do children do in nursery? Aren't they made to sit still during carpet time?

Being a bit provocative- is it not perhaps the case that your son finds it hard to do as he's told?

Or- does the teacher have poor classroom control? It's 50-50 ; he needs to be able to focus but she needs to help him do so by engaging him.

I think it is hard on August boys - I have one and he has struggled with not being as emotionally and socially mature as some of his classmates. I thought this was pretty much an acceted view to be honest.

He's just finished year 3 and things are easier now but I do wonder if I should have kept him back a year and more and more parents seem to be doing so in the private sector.

Accepted view - damn missing letters from keyboard.

I am generally against flexibility... but I feel strongly that there should be flexibility when prematurity & SN are known factors. It is silly for that not to be case and does no one any favours.

Also, preschool funding should be standardised to one year from the September after 3rd birthday. 2 yrs of preschool funding in the prematurity/SN cases.

My DS was so not ready for school.

Struggled in yr, constantly in trouble for not sitting still etc.

Then in y1 a brilliant teacher who told me at parent evening " mrs Chandon, he is just a typical year 1 boy, there is nothing to worry about".

It really depends on the teachers and their expectations!

Odmedod - question for you - DS1 will be 4 yrs 3 months when he starts school next september. I am already worrying about it as he is quite immature compared to the classmates in his nursery. Also, he will not be able to do the extension days until he is 3 1/2 (can't imagine him wanting to either). He will be behind other children of his year - even though he is quite bright

If I choose would I really be able to keep him at pre-school for an extra term so that he can have a bit more support from his nursery teachers who clearly love him? Is it really feasible and do you know people who have done it successfully?

The problem as I see it is that if everyone does it, it then becomes the norm and children who don't do it will actually be behind other children and also by starting later they will be settling in after everyone else.

I don't know much about this yet, DS only being 3.5 but I'm a teeny bit at the expectations of teachers that all young children will be capable of sitting still for carpet time. I've heard of older children who struggle to sit still in class being encouraged to learn standing up. I don't see why the same wouldn't apply to younger children - as long as they are listening, who cares if they are sitting, lying down or waving their legs in the air?

I do think the UK system is crazy though. Here (NZ), we have a rolling start so every child starts on their 5th birthday (usually on the day itself - the school has a bit of a party for them). If a child has been in year 0 for a term or less by the end of the school year then they stay in year 0 for another year. Surely it wouldn't be too hard to do something similar in the UK?

Scroobius we almost moved to NZ last year ( could not because of family illness) and I really like the sound of their system. Makes perfect sense.

I have sympathy with the OP. We (DW and self) too have a DS who is August born. We too have fallen foul of the system.
It is a foul system.

Firstly I must say we were misled badly by the local school who told us that it was a requirement that DS start in the September (at barely a week over four years old). We did not question this thinking the system must have changed
(It was and remains that a child does not have to attend school until the term after his/ her fifth birthday. The real reason seems to have been convenience for the school.

Had we been informed correctly DS would not have been in school that September. Whilst I cannot know for sure, I think this tendency to misinform parents is more widespread than one might think. Of course many parents do not care. The sooner they can offload their DC's into school the better it seems. But it not good for the younger DC?s in a class.

It was a term later before we ran into a series of issues with the school including bullying. The class teacher "identified issues" with DS's development (told to my DW) which it seems suddenly disappeared when I questioned her.

I saw firsthand what was going on in the classroom. We withdrew our DS and my DW is now doing the HE. In fact this is what brought me to mumsnet.

Just to give the other side- my son is a mid August birthday and settled in fine. What I did do was keep him out of nursery until he was older than his peers as I felt he was too young- he only went for a couple of terms.
He started school at the Easter- a term before he was 5.

noobydoo To clarify, your son is currently 3y1m? (and I'm not sure what extension days are, sorry)

My DS is beginning school this September, and last September when we were deciding where he would go, I was despairing at how young and dependent he was, completely still a baby really, especially if I compared him to his older sibling at the same age. A year on, developmentally he is a completely different child, one that is ready to begin school, though I'm sure there'll be some wobbles initially.

I do know children that have remained in Nursery class when their chronological peers have moved to Reception, however without exception they have all had some form of special need- global developmental delay, or FAS, ASD etc, and already had Statements in Nursery.

The difficulty comes when you deem them ready to begin Reception- schools in our area just do not have places, there has been a huge baby boom here, and many schools already have bulge classes (we're talking almost 20% increase in birthrate btw!)- it's hard enough to get a place at the usual admissions time. Children with statements should have an appropriate school place written into their Statement, so find it less difficult to gain entrance to a school, though those children I know that have remained in Nursery, all bar one stayed a whole year behind, rather than moving on to Reception part way through an academic year.

I do worry when children don't start with their chronological peers in September that they will miss out on friendship groups forming- a huge part of Reception is the socialisation aspect, and it can be difficult for latecomers to become part of an already-established coterie.

If your son is bright, I doubt he will struggle too much (my own DB was just 4 and 10 days when he started Reception, he was reading by Christmas). I would suggest doing activities with him that promote independence- teaching him to get dressed/undressed by himself, including outdoor clothing, toileting independently (including wiping), using cutlery, recognising his own name, etc. Make sure his clothes have fastenings he can manage (very easy to get velcro shoes these days, can't remember last time I saw lace-ups on Reception children, but make sure he can do up his coat, shirt if he has to have one etc).

And don't worry... even September-born children can find it difficult to sit quietly on the carpet and do good listening!

I agree but I don't know if/whether the "madness" should or could be changed.

We're lucky enough to be able to choose to send DD to a school where formal schooling doesn't start until they are 7. She will have a gentle introduction starting with Nursery when she is 3 and Kindergarten between 5 and 7, though we already attend a Mother and Toddler group twice a week at the school, which she loves. I much prefer the gentle entry route than the state system which doesn't suit all children or take personal circumstances into account.

This makes me laugh! My ds is the eldest in the class (early Sept b'day) and he was a nightmare on the carpet for years ages, all of reception and Y1, only started slightly improving in Y2. It makes no difference if they're the youngest, oldest or in between - it's about the individual child. His best friend is August born and sat like an angel on the carpet/assembly etc from day 1!