More value out of private school at primary or secondary?

[Gleek]

Just something I have been giving thought to, if you had to pick between educating your DC privately at either primary or secondary level, what would you go for?

Is it more important to lay good foundations or (try to!) keep them more focused at secondary? This is hypothetical really but could possibly be in a situation where it is something we need to look at properly.

Definately secondary.
In the primary years you can do a lot yourself as a parent to lay good foundations, you still have (probably the greatest) influence on your child's education.
By secondary the atmosphere your child is in at school has more influence often than you. Secondary is when your child sits exams which can determine a huge amount. I think your child is shaped far more in secondary by their social life and peers than primary, while I'm unsure its good for your child to be in a bubble of those able to afford private education only, I do feel its more 'value' that my children hang out with and mix with those who want to learn and do well and are very academically driven (not saying they, or my own, kids are perfect socially but they are balanced and do go out clubbing and drinking but to a sensible level (most of the time!!)) and focused rather than kids who feel its uncool to want to learn etc etc (not saying this is true of all state schools).

Depends where you live.

Most independents will acknowledge that one of their key roles is to get pupils on to "the next stage". If you have well regarded selective state secondarys then invest in years 3-6. If primaries are good but secondarys troubled, then invest in years 7-11.

I would not bother before year 3 or 4 as home activities such as reading together probably count for more than school.

Here, the favoured option is private primary to obtain 7 years of coaching for the small number of residual superselective grammars.

Only those who fail to get into the grammars (by far the majority of grammar school places are allocated to those who have been to private primaries) go on to private secondaries.

Whilst I adored the early years at my DC's prep and they provided a lovely start to their formal education, I wouldn't consider them imperative IYSWIM.

However, by years 3 to 4, MFL and Latin had been introduced, as had rigorous and flexible setting and specialist subject teachers.
All this was certainly worht paying for, I think.

Assuming there are no great state secondary schools (selective or otherwise) in the area, then of the two I would say secondary would have a greater effect, but it depends on the child as well. A bright motivated child in a reasonable/good state primary will probably do fine and adapt quickly to a private secondary. A struggling or unmotivated child will need great primary teaching (in whichever sector) to get them to love to learn and probably leaving it until secondary will be too late so they would get more out of the good foundation - which, if you cannot find it locally in the state sector, would mean private (always assuming you can find it there - I am constantly horrified by the tales of prep schools which only want the "easy" pupils and contrive to select out the rest).

stealth how on earth do those schools even think they can manage to guess who might be easy or not?

IIRC the assessment day for DC's prep involved an hour of playing and listening to a story, maybe a chat with the TA. At 3 yrs it would be difficult to spot much at all!!!

word,

Has nobody left your prep since then?

I know of several children with SEN or other difficulties who have been 'managed out' of local preps e.g. at transition points between pre-prep or prep, or told that 'we think a different kind of school would be more suitable for your child' etc. So it is not necessarily at the initial screening / assessment (though I doubt, for example, a child who was not speaking at that age, or had Downs, or showed signs of autism, or had run around the room shouting, would have got through the day even if they had been invited to it in the first place) that children are 'selected out'.

Here people pay primary and they coach heavily for the super selective grammar places.

Not what I'd choose for my child but it is clearly a "buyers market" and the schools educate as the parents want .

We did state primary and would have been prepared to pay at secondary had it been needed.

teacherwith2kids.

People have moved but it has generally been for their parents' work - usually going abroad.

I can't say for certain that they don't manage out any SEN, but in year 8 there are kids still there with dyslexia, dyspraxia and ADHD. So managing out is not an across the board thing.

I'm not saying other schools don't do it of course.

I was simply commenting that I htink schools who think they can make the right choice at 3, are a tad optimistic.

Depends on the child.

For my super academic son - private secondary school would be better
For my struggling daughter - the smaller classes in prep school would help her to get to grips with the basics and hopefully set her up better for secondary school.

Don't think there are any one size fits all rules in education.

I think, as others have said, that your preference will be largely dependent on the quality of state school available to you locally at both primary and secondary, and your own family's values and your DC's personality.

I went to private prep schools (one from 3 to 7, another, because we moved from 7 to 11) and then took the 11+ and went to what is now a superselective grammar school (just the best of the local bunch in those days). My parents' intended strategy, devised when I was in my mother's womb or shortly thereafter, worked perfectly. Except that I didn't like the grammar school at all! It's all very well plotting and planning for academic success but you do need to pay attention to a child's personality.

Good point bonsoir.

I had in mind that after prep DD would go on to either our nearest academic day school, or grammar.

The preparation was dully done, but ultimately she didn't accept offers from either...and convinced me to send her to a mixed ability day school, somewheat further away.

I must admit, she was right and I was wrong .

Good for you for listening, wordfactory.

I see so many parents around me who have hatched educational strategies years ahead (probably before conception. Indeed, probably before they met one another) and are loth to let go of them, even when those strategies are patently all wrong for their DC. The investment (emotional, time, energy, £££ etc) is so great that they just cannot call it a day.

We were just going to do Prep and back into the state sector at 13, but have changed our minds and are staying in independent through to 18. Prep has been amazing for DS and his is doing really well.

My area struggles for selective day schools, I don't want DS doing a 3 hour commute every day, so we have chosen an "all-round" day and boarding senior school that will suit him perfectly, which is just a short drive away.

Sorry - don't know where my last paragraph went.

From my own opinion and those of friends from the same school, the majority seem to feel that the 7-13 experience is the one that their DC's have most benefited from - many have gone back into state ed at 13 as confident, ambitious young people, top sets etc and continued to thrive.

If I could literally only do one knowing what I now know HE until 13 and then secondary.

In fact if I could wind the clock back and I could do both I would do a good state primary till 7 maybe 9 although start at least one MFL outside of school at 7 and then HE with specialist tutors till CE/entrance exams at 13 . It would not cost me anymore than a full boarding prep is charging and at least I know the job would be done properly.

I agree, there is a lot to be said for private tutors! One-to-one tuition that you have complete control over - what's not to like?

I seriously looked into it for the 6 months prior to DS's entrence exam two hours a week of all 7 subject £350 a week cheaper than boarding prep fees and in reality I wouldn't have had to find tutors for all 7 subjects and even I I had they would not need 2 hours a week each. English/history crossed over any one with a brain can teach science to the required level and geography. Maths and languages need specialised teachers and good Latin teachers few and far between although we managed to find one and extra curricula activities could be organised for this age group. I accept that it's not a perfect solution but neither are prep schools however reputable and expensive.

Must remember that there are lots of great state schools. My dcs went to a state 'good' primary and now 'outstanding' state secondaries. They are VA schools though and we do have selective and independent but I did prefer the state.

Thanks all - very helpful responses. The 7-13 being important is particularly interesting.

DD is starting an infant school in September that only goes up to year 3, it's got an outstanding ofsted, only negative for me is having to move her at end of year 2.

She would then need to go to primary school, one option is great but very small catchment that we'd need to move to get her into (probably spending an extra £30-50k to do so, for the sake of four years of good primary), one not so great and showing few signs of improvement.

Secondary schools are good and we have grammar options. For me, Latin, MFL, music lessons are something that state schools don't seem to offer - or don't offer to the standard we'd like/at the age we'd like and I went to one of the local very good state schools and didn't find it academically very challenging, ended up becoming completely disengaged with school (probably should try and not let this influence decision).

Options are:

We could send her private now, which would solve a multitude of childcare issues short term but I would be reluctant to send her to private secondary due to cost.

We could send her private when she finishes infant school and do 7 - 13.

We could send her to private secondary school.

We could send her private all the way and take the hit on retirement age, savings etc.

We could send her state all the way.

I JUST don't know. In many ways, we're very lucky and have good state schools locally and I am sure she'll do just fine in the state system and it's perfectly possible I am overthinking it. Maybe I should just review when we need to make decision about next school.

Eek, sorry, that ended up being a bit of an essay!