"the more middle class the school, the better it does"

[puddle]

A study, reported in the Guardian today has found that regardless of background, children do better the more "middle-class" the school they attend. 50% of a school's performance is accounted for by the social make-up of its pupils.

Here's a quote from the article:

"In affluent areas, such as Dukes Avenue, Muswell Hill, in north London, and Lammas Park Road, Ealing, west London, the study would expect 67% of 11-year-olds to achieve level 5 in the national English tests and 94% of 15-yearolds to get five or more passes at GCSE at grade C and above.

Meanwhile, of the children growing up in more deprived areas, such as Hillside Road, Dudley, or Laurel Road, Tipton (both in the West Midlands), just 13% are likely to get the top level 5 in the national English tests for 11-year-olds, while only 24% of 15-year-olds will be reckoned to achieve the benchmark five-plus GCSEs at grade C and above.

Put simply, the more middle-class the pupils, the better they do. The more middle-class children there are at the school, the better it does. It is proof that class still rules the classroom."

This seems to me to be proof that middle class parents damage all children by taking their kids out of state education and into private schools and gives credence to the arguement that middle class parents should stick with the state sector to improve education for everyone.

Views? I know it's a total parp subject for many.....

well Angeliz let's hope your children don't hear you saying that the local school is crappy and full of chavvy types called Chelsea and Charmaine
because that might just get them a bit of aggro if they have to go there, eh?

GREAT !!
education

names

class........... all on one thread

I do hope you know i was joking there! I was just making the point that although people think it's hilarious to go on about Tarquin, it's not nice when the shoe is on the other foot is it?
I will do all i can to make sure she stays wher she is.

My ma always comments on how 'normal' the other parents are too Marialuisa.

of course all children that go to Private SChool are loaded aren't they..........that's why there's so many Scholarships and Funds of various sorts to help out..............

My ma?? (you can tell i've had no education whatsoever )

My mum!

well I hoped you were joking
actually Angeliz it's not nice either way, but you won't catch me doing it on this thread or elsewhere.
at the risk of being pious, children do pick up on prejudices though...

exactly, i KNOW that.
Actually i'm quite glad you took it like that and didn't know wheteher i was joking as it illustrates my point perfectly. I was doing it totally toungue in cheek and at disgust of some of the comments here. Just to let you all see how hurtful it feels.
I don't hold those views so neither will my daughter!
She spends most of her waking week at School with strangers and for me it MUST be the right School for her. I beleive this is.

generalisations aren't good, no
fwiw Enid was talking about specfics, though, i think and didn't claim to be talking about all parents who choose to send their children to privte schools

Enid wasn't the only one i was aimimg at and whenever there's a debate about it, people always harp on about Tarquin. I was illustrating how ridiculous that is, not making generalisations. I was being totally 100% sarcastic and ironic.
There are lots of comments about snobs and names and cars we drive and what we wear and how we speak. I was simply maikng the point that none of us were putting down otehrs or piis taking through our choices so why is that neccessary?
I am not like that
Sorry if you cannot see the point i was making but you've got me wrong.

ah you are just the same

you tried to make us laugh with charmaine and chavvy

I tried to make you laugh with Ludo and the skiing in Greek

c'est le monde

tut
i think you're all deliberately ignoring the point i was making. I was not trying to make you laugh as i don't find it funny either way, ii was trying to show how hurtful it can be.

I don't think it's funny.

Sorry, haven't read the thread (just the opening post) but would love to know who funded this study. Children from affluent areas tend to do better at school than those from deprived estates...hold the front page!

Nothing to do with their parents having better educational qualifications maybe? In this debate would it not be more useful to stop referring to 'class' and concentrate instead on the level of the parents' education & the value they set on qualifications?

sorry i didnt read whole lot, seems too much, i thought ill just say what i think.
dd is only 11m and dh is talking about sending her private school. i know, but im against it. i can understand parents who want their children go private school for good. but there many good school, we know some schools got bad reputation.
i know someone who sent their children private school and had lots problem, and changed to local school, children are happy and dpoing good.
i wouldn`t slagg anyone for sending private school as they have reasons, but its not nice to hear being communist whatever... i spent my childhod in ex soviet union country and luckily all my eductaion was free, including uni( actually i gradutated two) i must say eductaion we had waspretty good, teachers were dedicated. to be good communist you suppose to learn more you see. V.I.Lenin said "Learn,learn, and learn"
im only joking but seems here people take thing too serious btw, ther could be any spelling mistake so i apologize before someone jump on it and excuse writing,too

Angeliz, sorry if you think I am picking you up on something harshly. I know you are usually a very thoughtful poster but the remark seemed a little uncalled for.
I agree that generalisations are unpleasent in whatever context, but to my mind there is a bit of a difference between taking the piss about someone's choice to give their child the tremendous advantages of a private education, and taking the piss out of children who are frankly disadvantaged by their birth, their class, their education and yes even the names their parents chose for them. It's a bit of an easy target tbh, and I think they probably have enought to contend with without throw away remarks, though I can absolutely see your reasoning behind them.
I am not for one minute suggesting that you would repeat something like that in frint of your children or anything like that. but even so, it struck me as a bit ugly.
I am being way too thin skinned about it I know. I went to a crappy local school in a poxy horrible deprived area. It was almost ceratinly the 70s equivalent of chavvy and yes I was even saddled with a common name.
excuse ramble and sorry for chippy oversensitiveness

apols for spelling etc
am bf and also blame my crappy half arsed education

it's o.k Harpsichorder.
It's actually stupidly really upset me too and am going to take a break now+

I lived on navy housing estates adjacent to 'rough' council estates and went to local schools with the 70s equivalents of Charmaines and Chelseas. Parents toyed with the idea of sending me to private school as the navy would subsidise fees but didn't bother in the end. Just as well, as private schooling would not have made one iota of difference to my A Level results (preen).

Their high expectations and a living room crammed with books were way more influential than the bog-standard schools I attended.

"Children from affluent areas tend to do better at school than those from deprived estates...hold the front page! " Wessex Girl.

Just to make it clear to those who haven't read the begging of the post or read the article, the report doesn't just make this statement.

The report says that when a school has a mostly middle-class intake, ALL the children get better results. It's implying that children who come from disadvantaged homes, where education is not valued, will do better in a school where the majority of children come from homes where education IS valued.

Dros, I found your point about financial crisis a bit weird really. Do you ask the same question when people you know take on a mortgage? If parents who send their kids to private school have a financial crisis then that must be very hard but I don't see it as an argument against private schools any more than you would tell someone to get rid of houses because some people won't be able to keep up with mortgage repayments. Not really anyone's business how someone else chooses to spend their money is it? And, however sad,it's their problem if it all goes wrong in the case of private school just as buying a house, car or moving areas to get into a good catchment.

I give up. I choose private school for my daughter for my own reasons. Some very valid ones too. Just becauuse I choose to use the private system, because the state system cannot provide what I did right now, does not make me a worse member of society or someone who doesn't care about education in this country. And just because someone else chooses to use the state system does not make them better somehow. It doesn't work like that!

I know plenty about the state system. I worked in it long enough. I will never, as a result of the last 4 years of teaching, teach in a school again - be in private or state.

OK beatie, thanks for putting me straight. But I think there must be more to it than simple 'class' of the majority of children. The relative easiness of recruiting and retaining staff in leafier areas for instance. I wonder how they get to put a figure on the contribution of pupils' social background to the school's success in the first place.

Hula, your circumstances sound just like mine. Do you live oop north too?

I do - in Sheffield.

Oh and we chose private after a lot of research and visits to schools in both the state and private system. We rejected a couple of private schools as not for us. We also rejected some state schools as not for us. The most local state school, our catchment, has a very good reputation. However after a visit there both Dh and I knew it wasn't for us. Shame, we had moved here especially to be in this catchment. We paid the house premium to be in a good catchment and it didn't work for us.

In the end we have chosen a school which I hope will suit DD really well. I will just have to teach her to ignore nasty comments from people who have preconcieved ideas and negative comments about children, and their parents, who go to private schools.

DD won't need showing how to behave towards those who go to different schools. She is already being nrought up to see that there is no pne solution that is right for everyone. And that thinsg like which school or nursery you go to doesn't make one bit of difference to what type of person someone is.

Well, I posted the OP and have just managed to read all the posts since Tuesday.

As Beatie says, the report was arguing that the recipe for increasing the educational achievements of MOST pupils is to have a broad social mix being educated together. It also questions the way in which we measure a 'good' school proposing a system in which class is taken into account as a major factor - the best schools in this new league table were schools doing good work in some challenging areas with quite high levels of deprivation.

On the whole I agree with Harpsi's posts on this thread. I'd like some sort of banding system in place to ensure a real mix of pupils in all schools.

I raise the issue about finances because I have seen the trauma it causes close up. People probably find it very hard to uproot their children from a private school and move them to a state school. Some would say it is harder than having to downsize their home or having to rent rather than buy. The people I know are so dead set against state school that loosing their house is small potatoes compared to taking their children out of school. They are likely to loose theie house as well.

I also think people don't take mortgages out lightly and people probably have some idea what they would do if they hit a financial crisis. Private schooling is so closely linked to your finances why is it weird for me to ask what they would do if worst came to the worst. People here talk about how so many ordinary people make huge sacrifices to send their children to private school which is a direct reference to money.