"the more middle class the school, the better it does"

[puddle]

A study, reported in the Guardian today has found that regardless of background, children do better the more "middle-class" the school they attend. 50% of a school's performance is accounted for by the social make-up of its pupils.

Here's a quote from the article:

"In affluent areas, such as Dukes Avenue, Muswell Hill, in north London, and Lammas Park Road, Ealing, west London, the study would expect 67% of 11-year-olds to achieve level 5 in the national English tests and 94% of 15-yearolds to get five or more passes at GCSE at grade C and above.

Meanwhile, of the children growing up in more deprived areas, such as Hillside Road, Dudley, or Laurel Road, Tipton (both in the West Midlands), just 13% are likely to get the top level 5 in the national English tests for 11-year-olds, while only 24% of 15-year-olds will be reckoned to achieve the benchmark five-plus GCSEs at grade C and above.

Put simply, the more middle-class the pupils, the better they do. The more middle-class children there are at the school, the better it does. It is proof that class still rules the classroom."

This seems to me to be proof that middle class parents damage all children by taking their kids out of state education and into private schools and gives credence to the arguement that middle class parents should stick with the state sector to improve education for everyone.

Views? I know it's a total parp subject for many.....

You mean simple things like getting 58% in a maths test when you've always been told (by yourself and others) that you're crap at it?

A result like that can be the most marvellously fulfilling thing...

I think what bloss means by 'culture of mediocrity' is the scenario that dd1 faced all through her primary career, where she knew that she could sit in a lesson, scribble down the first thing that came into her head and still get a cheery little stamp saying, 'Brilliant', despite the fact that the work was careless, scruffy and ill-thought-out relative to what she was capable of.

On the few occasions when I pointed out to the teacher that the work she was doing was very far short of what she could do I just got blank looks, because all the standards were geared towards achieving the NC targets, rather than being adjusted to the abilities or potential of the individual.

This does lead to a 'culture of mediocrity' because it is human nature to make as much effort as the task requires and no more, and IMO the school was systematically teaching the brighter children to underachieve, by focussing most of the effort on the lower end of the ability spectrum. The lack of any target higher than Level 5 in the Y6 SATs doesn't help. Dd1 has got through okay because I spelled out to her very clearly from the start that she needed to measure herself against her personal best rather than against her classmates' achievements, and she's the kind of child who will take that on board. She also set herself the target of getting into grammar school (which she did) and now of getting 100% in her SATS (possibly less likely!).

But not all her classmates have ambitious parents or perfectionist personalities, and a few of them had very nasty surprises in the recent mock SATs. She has some very able friends whoe barely achieved a Level 4, after years of doing the bare minimum necessary to keep the teacher off their case. These are examples from academic work, but I think the same applies to music, art or sport. The experience of having to make a serious and sustained effort to achieve excellence (however it is defined) is something that is much rarer in schools than it should be, given what an important lesson it is for kids to learn for life.

frogs - EXACTLY what I was trying to say.

I quite often teach students who were told in primary that all was well and they were 'doing fine'. They get to secondary and their results collapse and they completely lose confidence. It's devastating for their self-esteem.

'it is human nature to make as much effort as the task requires and no more' I really don't agree with this. In fact, depending on the task and your motivation to do it, it's highly likely to be the opposite. Competition and desire to succeed are much more recognizable human qualities and I see both of these in the classroom from students of all abilities and this is increasingly encouraged in our country's education system (state and private) with the increased focus on results starting at the age of 7 if not before (as your post suggests Frog) with SATS, then entrance exams, GCSE, A/S and A/2. Unfortunately in this climate, as with the schools themselves back to the OP, there are winners and losers. The winners are increasingly motivated to succeed and the losers are increasigly disaffected. Both of you need to recognize that you're talking about the top end of the ability scale and I'd say it's a much rarer experience to have too low expectations of someone at this level than to have too high expectations of someone at the bottom. Especially with G & T programmes etc. Many of the students who you are perceiving as 'mediocre' or lacking effort may well have been put off by the kinds of pressure/ challenges/ competition which you seem to be encouraging. I've been reading that in this country where we expect children to start to learn to read at age 4 students who find this difficult (most countries don't start this early and many believe this is too young esp. for boys) are already classed and class themselves as failures. So these 'mediocre' students may well have been labelled failures before they finished reception. Pretty difficult to try to excel if that's your academic background while for my dd1 who started phonics at 2 and has 2 teachers for parents and a house full of books perhaps not. Also, as you suggest Frogs, students at the top end tend to set their own targets and push themselves because they enjoy learning and want to succeed. And I see the consequences of perfectionism/ambition/pushy parents too and they can be debilitating. I take your point about the teacher who didn't recognize your dd's ability and challenge her. Obviously a good teacher shouldn't let this happen but it is difficult to accommodate the very different needs of 30 kids but I just want to make the point that actually compared to leaving school at 15, only one set of external exams, no league tables etc we have what is very far from a culture of mediocrity and the kinds of pressures kids are under today actually can create the opposite effect unless they're from supportive middle-class educated backgrounds. And the fact that results continue to improve proves this.

There must be another thread about the dangers of 'Ambitious parents and perfectionist personalities'. If not there should be. I think I'd rather settle for mediocrity.

Martian - just wanted to say I HATE marking books more than you do - bet yer!!!!!

I don't agree at all, spring.

In my department, I'm often assigned the students who we believe are under-performing because their confidence has been shattered in previous years. I seem to be a teacher who is very good at rebuilding confidence in some very average students. And I'm pretty proud of that!

Setting goals of personal excellence, expecting them to work hard towards them, and supporting them every step of the way does wonders to turn them around. The key is that I don't expect them (as you seem to assume) to be top of the class. I just expect them to perform to their abilities.

Bloss, What exactly is it you disagree with in my post? I support what you said in your previous post. As I said nobody would argue with encouraging kids to do their best (unless they were slightly mad!). And rebuilding confidence in a disaffected student is a wonderful thing - well done you. This is what I try to do too. My only problem with your arguments is the emphasis you are placing on 'excellence' if it means anything other than trying your best (which, as I've already said is great) and the implication (except it's more than this) that it's impossible/ very difficult to achieve this outside the state system even in a good school which you say your local school is. There's also a sense that unless you're surrounded by the best, taught by the best, teaching the best then why bother? In which case the vast majority of us might as well give up and go home and the overwhelming majority of kids will never have the opportunity to experience this kind of 'excellence'. I like to think I'm a good teacher. I try my best. My best is not exactly what it was pre-kids. I'm very far from an expert in everything I teach. Sometimes I go into a lesson without having planned it. Sometimes I'm only one step ahead of the kids especially, in Media Studies, when I'm teaching DTP. Maybe my students could have a more excellent teacher (though I'm not exactly sure where this person would come from and, again, as I've said, by definition, these are few and far between) who would be able to make them more excellent. Does that mean I should resign? Or should my students all leave and go to a private school (where quite frankly there is no guarantee at all of any more excellence in teaching anyway. In fact, I really do believe that most teachers in private school have to work much less hard and need to be less imaginative because the students they teach present less challenges - again, almost by definition, because in most private schools (I said most) the students have been selected for their ability and almost by definition they have supportive parents who want them to do well academically. If my local school was good and middle-class my kids would be going there. I don't think they need to be surrounded by excellence to do their best. In fact, I really hope and would be disappointed if they did anything less wherever they were and whoever they were with.

Also, nobody can try their best at everything all the time. Children in particular, have to have to have time to relax and be children. I have a student who is such a perfectionist (and have taught many like her) that she is actually paralysed in an exam situation because she knows she can't possibly achieve her best work in the hour or however long she has to write an essay. She would rather write nothing than not do her best and run the risk of not getting an A grade.

And I find sometimes that when I'm trying really hard and doing loads of work it means my students don't have to. My students need to learn to make up for my shortcomings by doing some independent work. As someone said earlier on this thread I think, often students who've been to private school do badly or perform in a mediocre way at university because they've been so pushed and surrounded by others of high ability that they find it extremely difficult to work on their own. Like my friend who got 9 As at GCSE, 5 A grades at A Level and a 3rd at Cambridge (I'm giving this example because I believe it is far from exceptional).

Tee hee, I knew I'd get written off as a pushy parent. If only you knew...

Spring, you can't seriously believe it is human nature to do make the maximum effort in all circumstances, even if there are no consequences for failing to do so??!! I have six years' worth of dd1's exercise books sitting in a box somewhere to prove it ain't so, and anyone who's ever employed a builder should be able to tell you the same.

Kids aren't stupid, nor are they fooled by the 'you did your best' routine, when that best is clearly less good than that of some of their more able classmates. My ds is not a particularly academic child, although unlike his older sister he actually is one of life's triers. Despite all the, "you've worked really hard, that's wonderful, you've done your best" routine, he is only too aware that others are much better than him. What he is proud of are the areas where he worked to perform at a level that is objectively good -- his cricket, his running, and the fact that after spending the christmas holidays practising his joined-up writing he now has the best handwriting in the class. My point is that none of these achievements have been initiated by the school, who would be happy to let him coast along somewhere around the middle of the group, and yet they do more for his self-confidence than the slightly lacklustre performance he's allowed to get away with at school, or the practise SATS papers he gets sent home with that he knows damn well he's not going to be able to achieve a passmark in.

But I'm going to bow out now, because Spring appears to be talking only from the teacher's position, not of a parent, and frankly I'm sick to the gills of being patronised by teachers. Things look mightily different from the parent's side of the classroom door. Spring, put your own kids through a medium-to-average bog-standard primary school, and then come back in ten years time and tell us about it.

"Setting goals of personal excellence, expecting them to work hard towards them, and supporting them every step of the way does wonders to turn them around. The key is that I don't expect them (as you seem to assume) to be top of the class. I just expect them to perform to their abilities. "

eh?????????? I would have assumed you'd expect them to be top of the class too. You've more or less said what I and others have been saying all along.

Gasp...could this all be a.....(deep breath)....misunderstanding???

It's your job as a parent to instill that confidence though frogs isn't it? Are you seriously expecting your son to be excellent and yet NOT spend holidays practising stuff with them?

I have a dd1 who was, literally, bottom of the class for maths in reception and term one of Year one. I have been working with her at home tirelessly and now she has made a real breakthrough, counting everything, added all the numbers she can see. Her teacher and I are overjoyed at her progress and have worked closely together on this. Of course I don't expect her to give dd1 the same kind of attention that I can. Anyway she is still, with all her hard work and trying, a bit below or just on average at numeracy for her age. Are you seriously suggesting I should not praise her for not being excellent at maths?

OMG I think I am the perfect example of a middle class parent

I disagreed, spring, because I thought you were saying that an emphasis on excellence was actually incapacitating children who weren't destined to be the best themselves.

I don't think you can understand how fast you can run if you're surrounded by people who are satisfied with jogging. Even if you are of the exceptional mentality that you can push yourself really hard when no-one else is modelling it or pushing you to do it, I still think that you are going to run slower than if you were surrounded by really good runners. When you see what someone else can do, it makes you push yourself a bit harder - you think, 'maybe I can do that'. And maybe you can, and maybe you can't - but you've still pushed yourself harder than otherwise.

This is true in a quite literal way for athletes - it's extraordinarily difficult to excel in a sport unless there is a certain depth of competition around you. But I think it's true in a classroom or an orchestra or whatever as well. I know myself I'm likely to give up and say 'it's too hard' unless I can see someone else out there giving it a good shot and making it look possible.

The trick is to set achievable goals and role models - challenging but still achievable. Today I showered praise on a lad in my class who normally sits right in the middle (of a not very high set) - he got full marks on a particular section of a major assessment task, and I made a big deal of it. Partly to build him up. But also partly to encourage others in the class who know that they're normally around the same range as him... 'If X can do so well, maybe I can too...'

I agree that children need rest and a measured pace as well. I actually sent one of my Year 12s home today as she looked so exhausted in class. She argued about it, and I just packed up her books and sent her off to the office to go home!

Of course it's our job as parents to instill confidence in him, Enid, and we try v. hard to do it. Nor do I expect my ds to be objectively excellent at maths, which is just as well, since it ain't gonna happen any time soon. On the contrary, his efforts are often more praiseworthy than dd1's achievements, since there is actually some effort involved.

My point was that however many times we praise him for his effort and his achievement, he knows damn well that there are other kids in the class who will always outstrip him. Which is why it is helpful to be able to point out to him the things he's done where he knows his achievement is good even compared to his classmates -- his beautiful history project, his handwriting and his sport. Whereas actually the school aren't fussed about any of that, and would be happy just to let him bimble along thinking he's average.

I actually don't think we're a million miles away from each other Bloss or Frogs. Perhaps your earlier posts gave the impression that you didn't value effort for its own sake or the achievements of everyone who has tried hard regardless of their ability. Or perhaps indeed I just misunderstood you.

Yes, Frogs at the moment I'm using my experience as a teacher and perhaps I'm actually arguing against myself to a certain extent because I began by saying I don' think my local school can challenge, support or make my own dds happy (but then it is a really bad school and a really deprived area). And I agree with Enid that of course you think that your children are the most important in the world and want whatever school they go to to fully recognize their abilities and inabilities and encourage them to maximise their potential but I really believe that the vast majority of schools and teachers want to be able to do this also. At the end of the day parents are able to, should and do have more influence on their kids' performance than anyone or anything else in most cases. It's a very rare teacher and school that's 'happy for a child to coast along' as you say. And I'm sure teachers would like to be able to spend as much time and resources on each individual student as we as parents would want them to. I know I do as a teacher and I know I can't even though I try.

As I said earlier, apart from anything else, teacjers just not allowed to do let their students coast any more. Teachers are being pushed to achieve as much or more than anyone. As I said earlier at 6th form level certainly (can't speak for secondary or primary any more) we actually get additional payments for meeting/ surpassing targets for student achievement and retention.

And Frogs I did say that earlier that people do try hard depending on the task and their enjoyment of it and their understanding of it. I always hated maths at school. I suppose I was one of the children we've been talking about in that once I realized it was hard and I wasn't very good at it and most of my friends and classmates were better at it I switched off and did the minimum of work. I wasn't a disruptive student or anything but I didn't work hard and tried not to work at all when possible. I was entered for the Foundation paper at GCSE and was lucky enough (and it was luck) to get a C so I will never have to worry about maths again. Am I proud of my lack of effort in maths? No. Do I regret not putting in any effort? No. If I had to go back again I wouldn't try any harder. I just didn't like maths. I'm not going to blame anyone else. My teachers tried with me and I was really happy when despite my parents trying to push me I was allowed to be put into the 3rd set (when I was in top set for everything else and getting As and Bs) and coast. There really isn't that much wrong with mediocrity (that's most of us by definition) and if a student doesn't want to be mediocre they will try hard all on their own.

Do you know what I'm being a bit of a mediocre parent at the moment. Better go off and make an effort to get some lunch for the dds!!