The best Independent schools generally take the highest qualified teachers?

[Hamishbear]

It might be obvious to many that the most academic schools insist that their teachers have an outstanding degree from one of the best universities but it wasn't to me.

For example if you want a job in Maths at Guildford High school allegedly you need a first in Maths from a well regarded university. You obviously need to be an outstanding teacher in the fullest sense too.

So do the elite schools usually have the best teachers? I suppose it stands to reason that there is more competition for jobs at schools that have a fantastic reputation?

The beauty of the world is that there are so many, many different ways of being annoying and wrong.

Too true!

Getting back to OP. So, it seems that the best independent schools have the highest bar when it comes to academic qualifications, requiring excellent qualifications, relevant subject degree etc. The good/best independent schools will also employ subject specialists even at Prep level.

The consensus seems to be that such people might not always be the best teachers, might not be able to deal enthusiastically or patiently with the low ability etc, might not be inspiring and may lack a spark etc. The consensus also seems to be that the very well qualified may also choose to teach in a state school. The difference is that the best/independent schools will only allow the outstanding teachers in all areas to join their schools. They can pick and choose.

The elephant in the room is the types of teachers described in my first paragraph will be erudite, learned, and academic. Their spelling and written and spoken grammar is likely to be beyond reproach. Some might be the product of a classical education themselves and all of these attributes will inform all they do. In our state school the head of the English department isn't familiar with the best novelists and poets (especially those of the last 100 years), says 'haitch' rather than aitch etc, etc. It probably makes me a dreadful snob to admit that bothers me but it does. Given the choice I'd want the well read and academically focussed in front of my children. I'd rather have these as mentors for my children than those focussed on celebrity culture and the victims of a dumbed down curriculum.

The beauty of the world is that there are so many, many different ways of being annoying and wrong

What has happened to acceptance of ideas, viewpoints, and diversity of cultures and recognition of difference here? Just because some people have different idea to yours does not make them wrong (or you right).

NG, absolutely, there's the rub. The private school teachers probably share the ethos of the parents, have high expectations of the children, are likely to be talented at taking sports or singing in the school choir as they had a classical/traditional education themselves, speak with the right accent and share the hobbies those who take themselves off to that sector will share. They will expect children as they do to go to good universities and will be presenting career options similar to those all their family and friends have which are probably not hairdressing and call centre. It is worth paying for all this.

Xenia, you could actually be describing my DD's state comprehensive school.

The staff expect students to go on to good universities and career options, are themselves high achievers in various fields and lead by example. The Head is also particularly keen that the students speak and present themselves well. Not all state schools are like that of course and definitely not all private schools either.

NorhamGardens, I dislike people saying "haitch" but would not judge a teacher on it. I know some very intelligent people who pronounce it that way. I recall being taught to say "haitch" at primary school, much to the disgust of my parents. I think it may have been the way the alphabet was taught in those days as all the teachers seemed to do it. I went to school in Notting Hill before it was posh and the indigenous population did tend to drop their 'aitchs - not sure if that was connected!

Of course not, feller. But it's still true that there are lots and lots of ways to be wrong. Sorry though, perhaps I should take a leaf out of your book on accepting different cultures.

But what do I know, I'm just a call centre worker fondly hoping that one of my children will manage not to end up down t'pit.

I hope none of us has had a teacher who says haitch. Do they exist? Why would a school recruit them?

Of course not, feller.

I think you might find the term is "fella" a form of ?fellow? . Feller might be a modern urban dictionary variant. But I am not the spelling police. I thought I would mention it before one of them pops along. :)

As you said, there are so many ways of being wrong (and annoying).

NG, absolutely, there's the rub. The private school teachers probably share the ethos of the parents

I would certainly agree with this. Some parents may be able to find this in their local state schools. I could not.

Xenia - you have shocked me once again. I took you for many things but never a hypocrite.

Would you like me to quote your post a few pages back (can i be arsed to locate it? - long thread) where you objected - and I roughly quote - to people who drop their 'haitches'!!! You definitely chose that spelling yourself.

And now suddenly you've come over all coy and are pretending you are in the with the cool clique who say 'aitch'.

No need to be ashamed of how you speak, you know.

NG - good thing Xenia does not teach your children then. How she might corrupt them with her outrageous haitches.

Jabed - don't think wishing one could work shorter hours/have more time to devote to family/devote to hobbies etc is really a 'woman thing'. I think most people, male or female, feel that way - it's called work-life balance these days. I agree that the reality is that these days people - male as well as female - often have to work longer hours than they would like, but not sure you can blame feminism. Unfettered capitalism has rather more to answer for if you wish to blame an -ism.

Also not sure many women miss cleaning being their realm - suspect SAHMs enjoy the luxury of time to devote to children/themselves, but would guess the number of women thrilled to be tied to the kitchen sink is and ever was limited. Though maybe I'm unusual - maybe others enjoy washing up more than I do.

I think that's a fellersy, Jabed. Now do get back in your box, there's a good lad.

NG- I think you're wrong today that independents will only allow outstanding teachers. No evidence to back that up, just my opinion.

Another anecdotal contribution... Was talking to an ex-colleague yesterday at a HE conference. She mentioned that another ex-colleague- a Science teacher, and a Doctor, is now teaching at same school she works at. She commented that said Doctor is having no more success at that school than she did at mine. She is very intelligent, no doubt has a "classical" education, doctorate from a top-end university (not Oxbridge, but red brick) but can't teach for toffee. Shame, as she's a lovely woman and very well spoken.

Today? To say (trying to dress up paper dolls at the same time)

I hope none of us has had a teacher who says haitch. Do they exist? Why would a school recruit them?

I think it's possible that part of the interview is not 'and now, please recite the alphabet in the correct order'.

4 weeks ago I would have said not, that many good teachers were to be found in less high-profile schools. Alas DD2's outstounding classics teacher has now been poached by a very well-known North London boys' public school and I am now . Halfway through her GCSE courses and for the trifling sum of 3x the money + staff flat. Bastards.

Also not sure many women miss cleaning being their realm - suspect SAHMs enjoy the luxury of time to devote to children/themselves, but would guess the number of women thrilled to be tied to the kitchen sink is and ever was limited. Though maybe I'm unusual - maybe others enjoy washing up more than I do

But do they? How does anyone know? It seems a lot of research is put into looking at ways ladies (sorry women) may succeed in the workplace. It assumes they all want the cut and thrust and careers. Maybe some do. I think what got left behind in this were the ladies (girls) for whom this may not be a priority.

As you say - many are trying to find that "work/life balance? (yes some men too). I agree there is an economic force here. But is that really a lot of ladies dissatisfied with the workplace? Maybe not you or many MN's (or maybe they wont say for fear of ridicule)

But I wonder if a point is not being missed. I think both Christina Odone and Catherine Hakim have tried to look at this and drawn conclusions that suggest many women may want to be SAHP's. Of course these days women can only be SAHM?s . That is legitimate. You would be surprised how many frown when my DW said she was a homemaker. The whole concept of being a homemaker (housewife) without being a SAHM or unemployed because you cannot find a job seems to have disappeared in Britain.

Most other countries can accept some ladies want this. So as I said, it does seem to be tied to British Feminism rather than any other.

I have been frowned upon as if I make her stay at home. That has never been the case. In fact I was surprised too. Perhaps the only real bust up type arguments I have ever had with DW were over this. I thought (being a feminist type of fellow :) ) that she would want to have something more and would want to use her education and skills in the workplace. She wanted to stay at home. She didn?t want to be a mum, I asked that too. She wanted to make a home. She wanted to cook and clean and do all the things that "old fashioned housewives" did.

I was surprised but I was not going to force her out to work since she was clearly unhappy ( and asking her if a change of job would be better did not solve the problem), so I said as far as I was concerned she could stay at home. But then we had all the side glances from the rest of society! Not just that it seems in Britain there is no concept of a woman being a housewife/homemaker anymore. You either go down the dole office or have children (so you can be a SAHM) or you pay the demands for NI contributions to keep your record up for the state pension. I pay these demands each year.

So I am the breadwinner and she looks after our home and the finances and runs a clean table. Now we have our DS and she is a SAHM and it doesn?t have quite the same impact. But still eyebrows are raised when she says she is a homemaker.

Now we are off the topic, so that has to be that. I know I am a beast who ties my DW to a kitchen sink. That?s where she is now and I am out of her way because I have been hustled into my den.

Alas DD2's outstounding classics teacher has now been poached by a very well-known North London boys' public school and I am now . Halfway through her GCSE courses and for the trifling sum of 3x the money + staff flat. Bastards

That sounds about right.Of course the other perk is you put your DC in the school for little or sometimes no fees. :)

I think what got left behind in this were the ladies (girls) for whom this may not be a priority

Reference the term girls. I am thinking educationally, not suggesting ladies never become adults or something similar. I think education may be a disservice to many young girls. I am also sure it is not doing boys any good either (being the father of a DS that?s important to me).

Ah, he has no children (yet) but that is a serious good perk. If he has sons. If he had daughters he might just as well stay out here in the provinces. Although tbh v high-profile school in question doesn't seem to do any better academically than my children's day schools out in Devon.

Well, Jabed, personally I loathe cleaning but am happy to be proved wrong and hear that others, male or female, do find it meaningful and satisfying. Certainly, my mother's role (and this was in the 50s) was very similar to your wife's, but knowing my dm, I know that she was not truly happy in this role - it was what was expected in that era and indeed to continue with her well-paid, high-status job would have been seen as implying that she'd married a loser who couldn't keep her. But it didn't make her happy.

My dad certainly didn't make her take on this role, any more than you did your wife - societal expectations did. I do really hope that your dw is as genuinely fulfilled by it as you believe - I know that although my dm would have objected loudly to the suggestion of returning to paid work, it would have made her happier in the long run.

Anyway.

Out of interest, what did you mean by 'education may be a disservice to many young girls'?

The private school teachers probably share the ethos of the parents, have high expectations of the children, are likely to be talented at taking sports or singing in the school choir as they had a classical/traditional education themselves, speak with the right accent and share the hobbies those who take themselves off to that sector will share. They will expect children as they do to go to good universities and will be presenting career options similar to those all their family and friends have which are probably not hairdressing and call centre. It is worth paying for all this.

Exactly like my DSs comprehensive and all for free!

Lucky you exotic. Our local comprehensive streams about 1/3 of its pupils into "Leisure and tourism" and does not even offer triple sciences.