Do any teachers on here support Michael Gove's education policies?

[SummerExhibition]

Just wondering. Everything related to curriculum changes, academies, free schools etc gets a bashing on here and just wondering if there's another side to the argument really.

Actually, none of Gove's 'educational reforms' have any sort of evidence-base at all. They're completely ideological.

He spoke about evidence & sources etc in webchat. See up thread. He talks about the success of the KIPP (?) schools in the States & doesn't see why a similar model wouldn't work equally successfully here.

That sounds more like anecdote.

Some of his suggestions seem nothing new, some I would agree with and others seem plain stupid - but the scary thing for me is that there seems to be another politition who thinks he knows best without looking at, as you said, evidence, research, best practice nor is he listening to his advisers.

Scary!!

On the webchat - linked upthread - Gove explains that he has listened to advisors. He also isn't a stranger to research:

My research is based on work done by people like Michael Fullan, Michael Brabner and Fenton Whelan into the world's best education systems, the comparative research done by people like the OECD and academic work done by people like Dylan Williams at the Institute of Education, Caroline Hoxby in the US and E.D. Hirsch.

I think the problem is that he has strong opinions which cloud the issue. He writes very clearly & well and I think he is very capable. He therefore should (IMO) be more visible at the moment and answerable to those who feel he has no idea at all.

He listens to advisors who agree with him and his pre-conceived ideas of how things should be. Him and Michael 'teachers don't know the meaning of the word stress' Wilshaw are quite the loved-up couple.

Noble you are very quick to condemn MG for anecdotal responses and not taking notice of research and advisors.

Hoiwever, reading your posts, especially the last one, it would appear that you are prejudiced against MG for whatever reason, and unwilling to even listen to "the other side".

He is the Minister- so he has to make choices and decisions. You cannot possibly know who he has spoken to or taken advice from- and most importantly, even if he takes advice, the buck stops with him- taking advice does not mean you have to act on it.

In the main, I like his proposals, and it's refreshing to have someone who speaks his mind and has the strength of character to do what he thinks is right rather than be wishy washy.

Ah Alice, you've finally found a way to dismiss my totally legitimate concerns which are backed up by a body of experts regarding Michael Gove's dangerous A-level proposals. I'd noticed that you'd failed to address them in any real way and now it simply must be because I don't like him.

It's true I don't like him, however I have certainly backed up my reasons for disagreeing with his approach to maths.

It is not simply a personal thing. However, because you like him you seem to be eager to defend him in every area, including those of which you are apparently ignorant.

Noble from what I can see- correct me here if need be- your posts have focsused solely on the maths A level topic.

Don't have time right now to check all thread, as working.

I have not seen you commenting on any of the other issues such as MFL, phonic teaching, poetry etc etc.

I may not be as well informed as you are on maths A level and numbers taking maths- but I did make it my business to find out and linked- and then you came back to that by quoting the Association for the teaching of maths , or whoever they are. Maths is not my specialist area- English it. what's yours out of interest?

Their opinion differs from the Russell Group- and rather than actually listening to them, you have simply said that they are in cohoots or similar with M Gove.

I haven't commented on mfl, phonics etc because I am a secondary maths teacher and therefore haven't an informed opinion on them as it is something I know nothing about. Plenty of people have commented who do know what they are talking about. I note in the news a potential boycott of the new phonics tests so I understand primary school teachers disagree with him there.

I'm a bit worried about your comprehension skills as I have pointed out a few times now that despite whatever rises in math A-level take up you have found, it is not enough to supply universities with enough maths-qualified candidates. Making maths a-level harder would reduce take-up causing further problems (maths was made easier to address a 15% drop in take-up following previous changes).
I've also addressed your references to the Russell group concerns and suggested how they could solve them without making maths A-level harder. Not sure how you see that as not listening.

Gove is wrong here.

Maybe the best solution to the poor numeracy of English school leavers is not to dumb down A-level maths to increase take up?

I think his modern foreign languages approach is a step in the right direction.

There are advantages and disadvantages to phonics teaching and the alternatives. Its fashion really, the traditional abc will come back at some stage I imagine.

You cannot teach MFL unless you have properly qualified teachers to do so, and a curriculum that is age-appropriate.

I am not quite sure what is achieved by making maths A-level harder, however, I would be focusing on solid basic maths skills for everyone, then GCSE results would improve and A-level take up as well?

The level of maths required to access university courses that are heavily maths-based (engineering etc) needs to be covered at A-level.

Personally, I think A-levels are the problem! It is a scandal that British pupils can drop maths and English aged 16.

KS2 languages is nothing new, everyone is meant to get some language teaching in KS2 - but that's all. A bit of this and a bit of that, depending on the teachers' ability. One year its a bit of French, the next a bit of Spanish, which the teacher has learned over the summer!

But more is not possible with the current MFL knowledge of primary teachers. How on earth will they manage to teach all DC one language to a decent standard - the resources are not there.

I agree with Bonsoir. It is easy to do more harm than good and we simply don't have enough linguists in the Primary schools.

Exactly - there are no resources to teach MFL in primary school and they will take years (a generation) to build up, and then only with great political will.

I know a mad case where Spanish is being taught by a teacher who is one step ahead at evening class - she had not a word of it beyond the 'hello, yes etc'

She is in that silly position because the teacher who could speak it fluently left!

I agree, exoticfruits, that is mad and a complete waste of everyone's time.

Do you not think that something is better than nothing. Maybe this early exposure will give some children a taste for languages that they otherwise may not have been exposed to.

Noble so much for stressed and busy teachers- if they have time to wastepost on MN!

I can assure you that there is nothing wrong with my comprehension skills- just because I do not agree with what you say does not mean I do not understand.

And re, primary teachers talking about phonics- I have spent a lot of my career undoing or trying to correct the poor teaching or non-teaching of phonics, by primary teachers.

Yes, you have taken note of the Russell group's comments- which are at variance with what you quoted by another body.

This does not make your opinion right- nor the Assocation representing maths teaching. The Russell group is a highly respected body of top unis so I prefer to listen to them re. what under grads need to know about maths for either maths or science degrees.

Honestly- are you really advocating that it's better to have more people taking maths A level at its current dumbed down level- when unis are telling us that the teaching falls below what they need from undergrads?

Where are all these other students going to go, or use their maths A level if it's either made easier or stays at the level it is now?

What is the point of increasing the numbers ( which have increased 6% anyway) other than to equip them for a degree where maths is required?

I cannot believe you are saying that more students need maths A level to access uni courses- then ignore the point made by unis that the quality of that A level is not what they need

mindosa - no, very poor teaching is worse than nothing.

Poor teaching is generally worse than nothing. DCs copy the accent of the teacher when learning something - shown by an hilarious concert where a visiting Australian taught a year 1 class a song and they all sang it with the Australian accent - it was a traditional Chtistmas carol!