Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Education

Join the discussion on our Education forum.

Original poster

Fixed period exclusions from school

54 replies

BumpingFuglies · 07/06/2012 17:35

How effective do you think they are from the child's point of view?

My son has been excluded for 2 days (not for the first time) for being rude to staff and fighting. This is in accordance with school policy.

The exclusion serves to remove a disruptive student so that others can continue their education in a calm environment, as is their right. I completely agree with this. The exclusion is also made as a punishment however and this is where I am not sure if it works.

In reality, my son gets an extra 2 days off school. He has set work to do and I get him up at normal time, but he still views it as a day off. If he had "in-school" exclusion, he would still be in the regulated environment but separated from other students. So where is the deterrent and the concept of punishment?

What does everyone think?

OP posts:
CeliaFate · 07/06/2012 17:46

If it's not the first time he's been excluded, then he's on his way to a permanent exclusion.
Schools have limited punishments they can dole out - in this case your son's exclusion sends a message to other students that his behaviour is unacceptable and won't be tolerated.
If he doesn't give a toss that his behaviour is unacceptable then it's not a deterrent and not really a punishment - look at prisons and repeat offenders. It's the same concept.
The exclusion also gives the staff and pupils a break from a pupil who's a pain in the arse.

You can make it more of a punishment by banning/confiscating privileges, but you have to be very strong and committed to it. It's a two way street with the school.

2shoes · 07/06/2012 17:50

wouldn't an in school exclusion mean more staffing?

Original poster
BumpingFuglies · 07/06/2012 17:55

2shoes - they have a Student Referral Unit, so no it wouldn't involve extra staff.

Celia - I didn't say DS doesn't give a toss about his behaviour, just that he doesn't see being away from school as a punishment.

Also should have said, DS is 14, Year 9.

OP posts:
CeliaFate · 07/06/2012 18:16

But a deterrent is also self imposed iyswim? You know something is wrong, therefore you don't do it. Not because you'll be punished or get caught, but just that it's wrong. That's what I meant about him not giving a toss. Also as it's a repeat offence then something's going wrong.
Being away from school isn't a punishment really is it? Unless you make it so. As I said, school is limited to what it can do. Out of school exclusions would make it more serious in my view.

Original poster
BumpingFuglies · 07/06/2012 18:23

See what you mean Celia. Just wonder if (since the facility is there) in-school exclusion would be more effective. The kids seem to fear the SRU. Also with the best will in the world, I'm not a teacher. I've put several punishments in place at home as well.

OP posts:
Original poster
BumpingFuglies · 07/06/2012 19:34

Have requested that this thread is moved to Education.

OP posts:
LittenTree · 07/06/2012 19:52

Have you asked the school if he can go into the SRU instead?

It's my opinion that 2 types of school send DCs home under these circumstances, at either end of the spectrum: the barely coping/verge of special measures which send DC home (ie away from school) because they cannot cope or won't find the money and organisation to cope; and the Outstanding schools which don't have to deal with disruptive DC on a daily basis as there are so few, thus see them as making a small dent on their statistics, so decide sending them home is more cost and reputation effective than trying to turn 'one bad egg' around.

Tortu · 07/06/2012 20:03

Hmmm. And I'll add to what LittenTree has said. There are two main reasons why an external exclusion takes place:

  1. To send a warning to other children
  2. Because the school thinks it'll work as a deterrent to prevent your child doing the same thing again.

I work in a school where, to be honest, we don't have the facilities to internally exclude as many children as we need to. Thus we save it for 'special occasions' i.e. those children who we know are in care, or who we know don't have supportive parents or who we know don't really have a home to go to. Or also those children who are school refusers/ have an attendance problem.

Generally, I think it actually does work. They tend to miss out on what their friends are up to and a lot of them do find it quite boring. However, it is also a very flexible punishment. Unless the school in question is one which has a clear set of written guidelines for parents about the consequences of particular behaviours (and loads don't because situations vary so much), they might value you actually speaking to them about it for next time (gulp. I'm sure you don't want that to happen!).

Original poster
BumpingFuglies · 07/06/2012 20:04

Litten, you make an interesting point, although my understanding is that the school is acting in strict accordance with policy. I suppose my question is general, rather than about my DS in particular: Is out of school exclusion more effective than in-school exclusion in terms of the child seeing it as a punishment and deterrent against future bad behaviour?

OP posts:
Original poster
BumpingFuglies · 07/06/2012 20:05

No, I haven't asked about SRU as this is an intermediate measure between detention and exclusion, as far as I understand.

OP posts:
Original poster
BumpingFuglies · 07/06/2012 20:07

Tortu, your point number 2, DS and his peers DON'T regard it as a deterrent. They regard SRU as a deterrent, which is why I'm questioning exclusion for it's effectiveness.

OP posts:
BoneyBackJefferson · 08/06/2012 12:46

Bumping
sorry if this seems harsh but
if the exclusion is not a deterent then it is your end that is at fault.

Original poster
BumpingFuglies · 08/06/2012 13:26

Boney - why?

OP posts:
TheOneWithTheHair · 08/06/2012 13:34

Ds's school puts kids 'in isolation'.

They are not actually isolated but have to sit in the head of year's room and work all day. They are put in the hall at break and have to eat their lunch there so are isolated from their peers. It seems to work well.

whenskiesaregrey · 08/06/2012 13:40

I know if I had been excluded, my mum would have made my life a living hell. I'd have been in my bedroom all day, everything that resembles anything interesting would be out of the room and I wouldn't have been leaving the house for God knows how long.

In our school we have the Monitored Study Room, which is an in-school exclusion like you mention. The kids hate it because its boring. They have their breaks and dinner at different times to the rest of the school, and have to sit in little cubicles where they can't see eachother and have to work in silence. To make out-of school exclusion a deterrent, then you have to make it like this or worse.

empirestateofmind · 08/06/2012 13:42

External exclusions are extremely serious at our school. The student and their parents are interviewed at length by the Head or Deputy before re-admittance.

OP in your situation I would be looking for a new school and new start for the crucial GCSE years. It all sounds a great worry.

Original poster
BumpingFuglies · 08/06/2012 13:54

empire - that is exactly what has happened at DS's school. I'm told however that the exclusions would make it near impossible to get him into another mainstream school.

Also, to those who seem to think that I'm not helping to make it a deterrent, last time he lost all priveleges (TV, phone, laptop) for a month and grounded for a month. Same applies this time and I also cancelled birthday party and presents.

It's not just my DS that thinks this way - so do his peers.

OP posts:
Original poster
BumpingFuglies · 08/06/2012 13:55

I think that internal exclusion works better as they are isolated and it makes it more apparent that they are missing out on what their friends are doing.

OP posts:
Loshad · 08/06/2012 13:56

Exclusions are for more serious offences. Isolation within school, or in school referral units are for more minor dismeanours.
I have to say i tend to agree with Boney - You really need to make it clear to him how serious this is. If it is not his first exclsuion then he is on the slippery raod to the PRU, and that rarely has a good outcome.
You must emphasise that to him, he is only in year 9, and is looking like he will not be in mainstream education for too much longer. He can only view it as a day off if that is how you let it happen - for his sake you must impose additional tough sanctions that he minds about.

Loshad · 08/06/2012 13:57

sorry rubbish typing - been on the computer marking too much this morning.

Loshad · 08/06/2012 14:00

Fuglies, you may be able to do a managed transfer - schools swap their less desirable characters. This can work well if it removes your DS from his pals (who appear to be of the same ilk and think exclusion is a doss Sad) and gives the opportunity for a clean start without trying to continually impress his peer group. Is is less successful when the schools are in close proximity to each other and the students try to gain extra kudos for the transfer.

NiceHamione · 08/06/2012 14:01

It is up to you to ensure it is seen as a deterrent . He also needs to understand the long term consequences of an exclusion , particularly of this is not his first.

Most children I exclude have had a time in isolation or an internal exclusion beforehand.

Original poster
BumpingFuglies · 08/06/2012 14:02

Loshad - I HAVE made it clear to him. I'm trying to say that the SCHOOL don't, despite all the official processes. What else am I supposed to do, chain him up?

OP posts:
NiceHamione · 08/06/2012 14:04

When he returns to school he should have a reintegration meeting with a senior member of staff, you could ask in advance if the long term consequences of his actions are made clear.

I often find that with boys taking about the line between school absence or exclusions , grades and potential wages is effective .

NiceHamione · 08/06/2012 14:05

How is he spending his exclusion time at home? Is he isolated in his room? Have you remove mobile phones, tv, laptop access etc?