Does it matter whether the pizza guy has GCSE Latin?

[PooshTun]

By the time your DC gets to 14 it should be obvious whether he is academic or not. If he isn't then why should he be expected to sit through 2 years of Latin, German, English literature etc only to get a D or E?

Wouldn't you rather he spent the next two years doing something that will help him get a job? And if the kid is struggling with English then shouldn't this be the school's focus as opposed to getting the kid to study German or French?

The education authorities (and some MNetters) seem to be of the opinion that ALL school leavers should leave school with a well rounded education. That is a great thought if you have a kid who can't decide whether to study geography or Latin or Egyptology at university.

But with some kids they are not academic and they won't be going to Uni. They would benefit greatly from a two year course that would prepare them for the work place as opposed to studying subjects which somebody somewhere has decided that is necessary in order for a person to be a 'well rounded' person. Some people's main concern is first get a job THEN work towards to being what someone else regards as being a well rounded person.

It works Grimma.
I once had a part time job where I had the top 18 DCs in a large (3 classes per year) state junior school. They just came to me for Maths and Literacy. They were year 5.
In September, when they had just gone into year 5, I gave them a verbal reasoning test. They had never seen one before-or so they said and I am inclined to believe them. We worked through a few questions together to get the 'feel' and then did the test. They all did very well. They were all very bright.
I had the core for both maths and English but it can be unequal, some came to maths but not English and vice versa.
They were all a joy to teach- we were really able to 'fly'. Out of the group of probably about 25 overall, it was easy to tell the 4 real high flyers and the next 4 who were not far behind. You didn't need a test.

The real tragedy is that you can see children at 3yrs of age who are really going to struggle and they are just going to get further behind so they don't stand a chance by year 5.
If money was spent on them at that point they might be able to fulfil their potential. They haven't much hope of excelling in English by year 5 because their vocabulary is so far behind at the age of 3yrs and the gap widens-those at the top don't stand still while they catch up.

Grunge - D&T is a 'proper' GCSE, the sort of thing they offer at grammar schools . My DD might have done it if her school didn't also offer Electronics. Surely all 'academic' schools offer a range of tech GCSES?

Resistant materials - well, that's probably pretty rare in the private sector. And even then, adding that to a bunch of GCSEs is pretty restrictive if you've got a child who really would be better suited to various of the BTechs.

LOL I agree Grimma but I always remember when DH and I were looking round a secondary's woodwork lab/workshop and a parent announced in a loud voice "This is for the sort of pupil who isn't very bright, darling - you won't be doing this don't worry"

I assume the said offspring went off to do IGCSE D&T at Eton or similar.God, I felt sorry for the kid

Actually, in my day (being an ex-grammar girl) this sort of attitude was prevalent. No 'academic' girl was allowed to do any sort of technology or anything remotely manual, the option of the '70's equivalent of D&T food only being offered to the bottom sets.

How times change - DD's girls' grammar, until this year they had to do a tech GCSE , think its optional now but they all do it till the end of yr9 anyway. Limited places on food tech, quite a lot DT, mostly Electronics. They're going to offer proper Computer Science too, hurray!

DH is quite jealous of the electronics - he wasn't even allowed to do it as a hobby 'you're not planning on becoming a TV repair man are you?'.

I'm really envious of all the differnt things they do now. Both my dc's loved D&T food and I thoroughly enjoyed the testing & evaluation

I did Latin and academic subjects but I also desperately wanted to do Art. The school were reluctant but eventually I was allowed to do so. So inadvertently I was trying to get what is now termed a broad curriculum

DS's school has things like electronics and programming clubs but all he wants to do is hang out with his mates and talk about XBox Halo 4

It is a sad failing of academic state school systems that they do not allow bright children to pursue non-academic (art, drama, music, sport) subjects to the highest levels. Whereas private schools have no such prejudices.

What 'academic state school systems' do you mean? Grammar schools? I'm fairly sure they do let children do art, drama music and sport, don't they?

Bonsoir - Grimma and i were talking about the dark Old Days of the state grammar system. What we were saying is that things have changed and this is now very different.

Which is why I completely fail to understand the OP's insistence that BIL was forced to do classics. Either (1) he's wrong or (2) BIL went to a v strange school indeed

I was, as I said, answering your OP, which doesn't mention your BIL. It says you should train your non-academic child to sweep roads or make pizzas (I paraphrase). I had lost the will to live interest by the time your BIL was brought into the discussion.

Help- I must tell my grammar school daughter that she should change her A level options. Apparently the don't do theatre studies at academic state schools! Oh, and she'll be very disappointed to find that her Performing Arts, Art and Music GCSEs don't exist either. Oh, and her cousin's just finished her DT course work.......what a waste.

LOL seeker I think that's both Bonsoir and PooshTun down for a bit of cramming on remedial English comprehension this weekend

'I think it is my primary duty as a parent to manipulate the world to my children's advantage and do so as often as I possibly can manage!

I agree -I do it'

Well, I respect the honesty of this stance much more than those people who say 'Well, I support grammar schools and it just so happens that my child has got into one and how wonderful that the fact that my child goes to a grammar school will mean that another child now has the opportunity not to go to a grammar school which clearly wouldn't suit him but to go to a different sort of school which will allow him to pursue his dream of becoming a car mechanic'

V long thread, and I haven't read it all,
but kids I know at our local comps, complain about the way subject options are linked together. For example - music AND physics cannot be chosen as you would have choose between them. This seems a bit odd to me. I presume this is normal practice though.

stealth - The subject line of the OP refers to my BIL, the pizza guy with a GCSE in Latin. So what do you mean I didn't mention my BIL in the OP ?????

It's so ironic / 'funny' (take your pick) that a bunch of posters turn up to lecture me on the importance of receiving a well rounded education like them AND then show a total failure to comprehend what I have written.

I can't say that I am too impressed with your so called well rounded education :o :o

You get that at any school 1805-it is logistics of timetabling.

I didn't know that a well-rounded eduction was supposed to make you psychic. PooshTun, you did not mention your BIL in the OP. The fact that what most of us thought was a hypothetical situation, happened to be your BIL, was only referred to midway through the thread.

Seeing it really happened, I would be interested to know how he got in this situation, as so few schools offer Latin and then, usually, only to the higher achieving pupils.

I was trying to open up a discussion about whether non academic kids should get a wider choice of non-academic subjects. Latin was an example. The pizza guy was an example. Yet posters are coming back and going - you should have been clear that the pizza guy was your BIL. And why pick on Latin?

Talk about ignoring how the cocktail taste and instead fixating on the design of the cocktail umbrella.

Re being allowed to take Latin when his English was poor, think about it. Is the school going to say your English isn't brilliant so you can't pick an option that requires a high level of English? If they did then BIL would have left school with one GCSE in woodwork :o

And as I've said above, why are you fixating on why BIL was able to take Latin?

You obviously don't know MN very well PooshTun! We love to sideline onto the unimportant or failing that grammar and spelling!

Oh ffs. The op sounded like a hypothetical. Them you're telling me I should have known, how exactly ? Then when your complete idiocy is pointed put youaccuse us of nit picking. Madness. Have you ever engaged in a conversation or debate with anyone, ever?

I don't mind the side lining too much. Its the posters who come on and question why I think people in menial jobs should be limited in their education choices.

I just want to shout back - read the fecking post! I want people in menial posts to have MORE choices and that it is the people in charge who want to limit their choices to traditional subjects like Latin.

And here we have another person fixating on pizza guys with GCSE in Latin :o

I think I'll retire from this thread and do something more productive like talking to my plants instead

Re being allowed to take Latin when his English was poor, think about it. Is the school going to say your English isn't brilliant so you can't pick an option that requires a high level of English?

Well, yes, schools do it all the time. Latin as an option, when offered at all, is usually reserved for higher sets, as often is the opportunity to take a second MFL.

And as I've said above, why are you fixating on why BIL was able to take Latin?

Because you brought it up and I am interested in what I perceive to be an unusual situation.

"I just want to shout back - read the fecking post! I want people in menial posts to have MORE choices and that it is the people in charge who want to limit their choices to traditional subjects like Latin."

Well, if that's what you meant, PooshTun, why did you say that pizza delivery man who wanted to read Keats could always use the public library? Or wonder whether education would help a person doing a "menial" job to do it better? Or suggest (although this may have been on a different thread) that education resources would best be concentrated on future scientists and other high fliers?

Seeker I've given up on this one, a mass of nonsense and contradiction