Would you be happy for your DS with this set up?

[icarriedawatermelon2]

Reception class with just 8 children, all boys.
This could change through out the years, but currently just boys and only 8 in the class.

A small reception class is not unusual in a prep school - at ours the classes get bigger and bigger through the pre-prep as children join at non standard times, e.g. our Yr R this year has 11, and our 3rd form (i.e. Yr 5 has 33). If you have been offered an attractive offer then I would take it. If you choose after a while that it's not for your son just give a term's notice then move to a state school, would be harder to go back to the prep at a later date wanting the same bursary though.

I would go with the "full to bursting" state primary. If it is full, then it has secure funding, and can provide extras. The head of DCs school would not recommend a state school which is less than full as then the funding is tight. He also runs a primary which is chosen over local preps, even by teachers at the attached senior schools.
If you can't afford the prep school, are you going to be able to afford private senior schools? If you had the money would you choose this school?
Can you even get into a decent state school if either: you change your mind or the school folds?

If you've got an offer at the state school and don't take it, it is quite possible that you will not get in at a later date. There are pretty strict rules on infant class sizes (ie 30 max) so they won't necessarily take your DS if he tries to get in later even if it's your catchment school.

So you could be missing up an opportunity either way really.

To give you really helpful advice, I think we need more information about why you consider a place at a small, struggling private school to be 'the chance of a lifetime', given your obvious reservations about the class size and composition (which I must say I'd share). You must have been very very positively impressed by the school to outweigh these drawbacks - so what are its strong points?

although even as I wrote that, I started to ask myself 'if it's so great, why is it in financial difficulties?'. hmmm... I think I'm convincing myself that you should be turning this place down.

I think that 8 is far too small for children's social development.

I would be extremely concerned about the financial viability of any school with so few pupils meaning that in the worst case scenario, you could pretty quickly be looking for a school placed for your ds, due to the closure of the private school, when there are no spaces at any of the schools in your area.

I have taught in a private school with 12 in a class and found it stifling and far too intense, both from and academic and social standpoint.

Traditionally the prep prep has always had lower numbers as most join in main school. The school has been there for 50 years and many pupils abroad also attend. I really don't believe there is an issue financially. They are offering a bursery so whilst they are keen to keep pupils they must be 'able' to.

I am only really worried about the dynamics, they all play together during break and lunch, and often join up with other classes etc. but still it is a small and all boy class. My other worry is about the bursary, will other parents find out, what will they say?? Could they take it away??

A bursary is usually assessed fresh each year, so they could indeed offer it for this year and not for next year (by which time they might guess you'd be less likely to want to remove him) - but you could ask them what their policy is and they might be able to verbally reasure you that it won't vanish unless your circumstances change. The other parents will probably only find out if you or your DS tell them.

Personally, I'd send your DS to the local school til he's 7 and then consider joining the main school then with the bigger numbers, unless you think he's a very nervous child or academically likely to struggle and would really benefit from the smaller groups.

Have you looked at the accounts on the charity commission website?

I have 2 dc in different private schools, and if I knew any new preprep parent was getting a bursary I would be curious. Possibly not that concerned but then I do continue to check the accounts of both schools on an annual basis.

Have you been properly means-tested, or is this just an inducement? Obviously if this is a means-tested bursary then it will depend on your financial circumstances from year to year.

One of the dcs prep schools did offer financial inducements (in order for pupils to transfer from a competitor school). These were dependent on a confidentiality agreement.

Ludymuck - I did look but they are not listed. It is a limited company I believe.

I did look on company check and its net worth was over 1million.

Why is it the chance of a lifetime?

Sorry, posted too soon.

What are the conditions of the bursary? Will you be means tested every year? What happens if your income goes up a bit? And what does it cover- you need to find out about extras- school trips, music lessons, uniform and so on.

Have done small classes and large, prefer the larger. Dynamics of a smaller peer group was horrible at times

Does net worth include property etc? I would try to get those accounts or more info from companies house.

They will know that once he joins he is unlikely to leave because the option of the state primary will be gone, so no incentive for them to continue with the bursary.

Net worth of a million is not much- any building big enough for a school in the South East is probably worth that. And not far off anywhere else. Honestly, you need to look into this more.

Okay OP - you believe this is "the chance of a lifetime", probably that private is always better than state.
So whatever people say about: the class sizes being too small, the finances sounding dodgy, and the problems of getting your child into state if it all goes wrong; you are going to want to ignore us. Fine, but you have been warned.

Both my DS's got bursaries to a boarding prep and went into yrs 3 and 4 there were 6 children in yr three and about 12 in yr 4 when they joined. In retrospect I suspect they offered DS1 a bursary because of "bums on seats" and they wanted DS2 who is exceptionally bright, the school was and is having looked at the accounts is still struggling financially. This was 7 years ago and although mine have moved on to senior schools its still there. A new head was appointed within a year of us arriving and although boosted the numbers significantly he cant get them up to a level they once were when the school was in its hey day.

"A bursary is usually assessed fresh each year, so they could indeed offer it for this year and not for next year"
I can only speak from my own experience they never took our bursaries away and I suspect they would only remove the bursary if your financial circumstances change. Let face most costs of running a school are fixed so some money is better than no money.
The other question is a small school/class ok. It depends on the school. Our old prep was virtually all full boarding so away from lessons, activities were organised across the age range and yrs 3 4 and 5 lived together in the same part of the school so thus creating a wider circle of friends but TBH I would not have been happy with such small classes if it was just a traditional day school. Having said this my DS2 struggled to find a friend he had something in common with the school was very team sports orientated and he is not a team sport player. We also found that the school would try and start an extra curricular activity but due to lack of interest stop it after a couple of terms there just wasn't enough children interested to make it financially viable. We also found that in a small school thats struggling financially when teachers leave/retire they weren't replaced and other teachers had to teach the subjects so the Greek teacher left and the French teacher had to teach it even though he'd only got Greek O level 15 yrs ago. More children did join as they went through the school and when they both left at the end of yr 8 they were 30+ in each yr divided into three classes but children joining all over the place was also disruptive. Children would join say for example never having done Latin they would join a class of children who had been doing Latin since yr 4 and this seemed to throw the teachers who seemed to feel a need to back to the beginning to accommodate the new child although I can see that this may just be my unfortunate experience. We had a "big" influx form another prep these children never really seemed to integrate with the others.

Both my DS's are now at big senior schools and significantly happier. So I would advise you to think carefully before going down this road. Finally if the school were to close (I've seen it happen with three local preps) there is usually some sort of gossip about it most parents will then jump ship frantically try to find somewhere else but certainly in two cases the parents were given at least two terms to find another option.

"but you have been warned."
mummytime is there nay need to be quite so aggressive?

Let me try again this time without typing errors:
"but you have been warned."
mummytime is there any need to be quite so aggressive?

If it is a limited company, and not a charity, then there are shareholders somewhere looking for a return/profit, or who may choose to sell the school. There may not be a typical governing body etc. Not necessarily a problem, but worth being aware of.

All limited company accounts are available from the Companies House website, though you do need to pay £1 per document I believe.

I appreciate that you are looking for advice on small class dynamics, but actually this is all inter-related, especially in prep schools which don't have a guaranteed supply of pupils. One small year group can be offputting to other potential parents and actually for a school who needs a certain level of income to meet the monthly salary cost, things can quickly spiral downwards. If this is a co-ed school, then in particular it will be difficult to recruit girls into an established single sex year, and obviously if you turn away any parents, you are turning away siblings etc in future years.

Eg one of my dcs current school is full, with the exception of Year 5 (which was a tough boy-heavy and ill disciplined year group which led to several parents withdrawing their children) and Year 3 (the year where you would expect to have the younger siblings of Year 5). As I have said below I'm not worried about the finances of that school, BUT I have checked them, and I know the number of pupils to break even. Prep schools typically run on tight numbers. So with this particular school I know that they have an upper limit of 172 children (the number they can physically fit in) but they need to have at least 153 fee-paying children in order to cover their costs.

With my other child's school I can be more relaxed on number as it is owned as part of a group of schools by a church educational charitable trust. Not only is the attached senior school very oversubscribed, but even if that suffered a financial loss there are reserves across the pool of schools which could support it for a while. But I still look at the accounts. By the way both sets of school accounts disclose the total amounts given in bursaries each year.

In the current economic environment headteachers are expecting astute parents to do their homework, and will have no problem in answering any questions about the school finances. If you always have the option of an excellent state school locally then of course you can take greater risks, but ime it is easier to ask these questions before you have signed up, rather than afterwards. If you don't feel comfortable asking financial questions, then at least make some enquiries as to how many children are in the class above, and how many are registered for the one below (at the very least they should know about siblings). As noted with dc's school, a low intake will have a knock-on typically 2 years below, so provided the intake above and below yours are full it may not be critical.

In small schools sport tends to happen across 2 yeargroups (so team sports would be U9 and U11), so this alone is gives you an opening to ask the question without appearing to question the finances if you felt that you couldn't do that.

I wouldn't have chosen it for my own DS as I wanted him to be in a class with girls as well. But 8 boys - they should be able to find likeminded friends and the teacher will have a lot of attention for each of them. I would go with it, probably! Particularly if it is actually a mixed school and girls will come eventually.

My children went to a small village primary with 5 in reception for DS1 and 7 for DS2. The educational advantages were obvious but as others have said there can be social disadvantages, not that either of mine ever had any problems.

One question to ask. Will they be taught by a teacher or a nursery nurse? It could be the case that they don't have a qualified teacher on a day to day basis, just supervising TAs or nursery staff.

We moved our dc from state to private last summer. We looked around the school in the summer holidays and were wowed by the facilities and opportunities available. The head teacher told us our DS would be in a class of 17 which sounded ideal to us. When we turned up on day 1 there were in fact 10 children. By half term 3 children had left and another 2 left by Christmas. This left my son in a class with 2 other boys!

Academically it's been great but my poor DS has been bullied beyond belief. It's been social suicide! There is no where to hide in such a small group. It will only be luck if your son finds a like minded friend in such a small social circle.

I wouldn't recommend a very small class to anyone from our experience and for all the reasons already mentioned.

Needless to say we are leaving at the end of the academic year to a much larger school for a more rounded education for our children!

Good luck with your decision!

I would be asking questions about staffing - in particuar staff turnover, qualifications and the amount of time per week the class will have a fully-qualified reception teacher with early years experience. With very small classes and tight finances, more experienced (expensive) teachers may leave and be replaced with younger, cheaper ones and / or teaching attangements may be reshuffled to avoid recruitment e.g. with the year 1 teacher 'supervising' non-qualified staff in the reception class (or a Year 6 teacher who was surplus to requirements being given the reception class rather than being made redundant!).

Also enquire for how much of every day the children would be taught in that small class, and whether for some of the time they would be combined with others. While combining for e.g. PE may well be positive, it may also be a way of cutting costs - as 7 fee-paying children + at least 1 on a bursary seem unlikely to cover the costs of a full-time, qualified and experienced Reception teacher. You may think that you are getting a lovely tiny cass - and in fact be getting a much larger, mixed age class for some or much of the time.

Many many thanks for such detailed replies. middleclassonbursary and ladymuck many, many thanks. So much to consider and look into further.
The boys currently in his class are a bit of a nightmare tbh and I am concerned about them progressing together. There is a great deal of rough and tumble and fallings out.
My main reason for wanting him to remain is the extra attention with the basics, but he loves friends and girls especially!