schools state-indie / move / my options

[olguis]

I am really grateful to anyone sparing any piece of advice for my individual situation.

I live in SE London; DS goes to a 'good' state primary; Y2. I've been having problems with his school since Y1, and it's ongoing. To cut it short, he doesn't learn much at school and all his progress is down to me working with him in the afternoons. I think I have lost faith in state education in England altogether. I don't know much about independent schools, though. I have grown up in another country and find it hard to interpret local schooling culture at times.

So, I am a single parent, full time employment, earning 40+, not eligible for anything. Half of my salary goes on rent+bills, another quater on au pair+music for DS+extra activities for DS, and then I scrape for food. It is really tight. Am I completely mad to think I can try to move him private? In SE, there is St.Dunstan's college, but it's 12.000 annually. If I don't have an au pair but have him in all after school activities (at school), will I manage full time work?

Should I move to some area which has cheaper indie schools? Am I setting myself for disaster?

I know my problem can seem really weird and completely ungrounded to some. I come from a completely different culture and currently am just in panic as I can't accept DS's schooling while failing to see any options. Maybe someone has got a brilliant idea and there are options I don't know about?

You do need to look at what state schools he stands a chance of getting in to. State schools are not all the same, and you need to work on the basis of what the options look like for the future, not just the bad patch he's currently going through.

For independent schools, you also need to look at a few, as not every school will suit every child. This might mean looking at some that cost a bit more (but you might also enquire about a bursary).

What after school provision will vary with each school. You will need to enquire when you go to look around. There may be clubs (check costs - if it's a staff run activity it may well be free, if they bring in coaches, then there will be a fee), and also check what time it finishes; most would be for an hour or so, and that might not be long enough to cover until you can get there. There may also be supervised after school clubs going on until later, again, check the price.

Hi Olgius do you mind telling me where you live in SE London? PM me if you want to keep it private!

Olguis, sorry

mumeuro pm-ed you

answered you!

mumeuro thank you very much for your story! It is very helpful

You could look into bursaries?

Private school fees are expensive in outer london / surrounding areas too.

Maybe try another state school?

Bursaries are for 11+ only, it seems. I've been looking into some other state schools round here, they all seem very similar.

I remember seeing some posts where ppl were saying they moved out of London to get cheaper independent primary education.. I know there are some very expensive primaries in the countryside, but I just wondered if there is a combination of slightly cheaper rent / slightly cheaper school that would make it possible for me.

It depends on how far from the SE you are able to move and still keep your job. Rents and schools are, on the whole, cheaper in the midlands and the north, and there are prep schools offering bursaries, tho' not as many as senior schools offer. Try your local library for the Good Schools Guide - or even buy a copy. Absolutely invaluable information.

I think if you did your homework you could find a cheaper prep, although you would have to consider that the wraparound care you need would almost certainly cost extra.

I randomly chose a school in the far SE of London (well, inside the M25) on the ISC website and hit West Lodge School- fees £7.5k

Wasn't recommeding that school by the way- I know nothing about the area. Just demonstrating that there are cheaper places.

I'm sorry but on those figures it would be very difficult. Have you looked at other state options? Could you have a tutor for a couple of hours a week? I do know a couple of people who have moved their children to a private school and have really suffered financially because of it. If you aren't sure you can afford it, don't go down that route.

Apologies if you already know this but 1 indie schools usually have much longer holidays than states day schools at least 3 weeks at Xmas and Easter and 8 weeks in the summer and sometimes 2 weeks at the October 1/2 term. How will this effect your work? Secondly senior indies are often significantly more expensive so what are your plans after yr 7?
You may be interested to know we know children at St Dunstans they are very happy there.

Bursaries are available at quite a lot of prep schools, though mainly from 7+.

and scholarships, also from 7+...

If you are in that area of South East London and are in a position to move then I would move to Kent (Bromley, Bexley, Orpington etc). Very reasonable commute to London, excellent primary state schools (and then you could afford a tutor if needed) and the grammar school system (including 'super-selectives'') for secondary. Housing is much cheaper.

It depends whereabouts you are in South East London. You may be able to move him to a better state school. I work in an outstanding school in the South East and, although it's oversubscribed for reception, we have some spaces higher up the school. If you approach the school directly, they may be able to get you in...

Thanks to all for very helpful responses!

Re: vacations are not a big problem as DS can go abroad to his grandparents; I would actually much prefer longer vacations. Also, I am an academic, so don't have to be in office 9-5, do work at nights, etc.

The figures, indeed, don't look very promising for considering good private education. I'd much rather prefer to save money to help my parents. Good state would be fantastic. The problem is I doubt my capacity to judge: I loved DS school when I visited and only after him begin there for three years I can see systematic problems in it.

Seren82, do you mind pm-ing me with names of schools you'd consider good - or your school?

"The problem is I doubt my capacity to judge: I loved DS school when I visited and only after him begin there for three years I can see systematic problems in it."
olguis I don?t think you should be too hard on yourself. You only have to look at the threads on MN and the number of contradictory comments to see that you are not the only one. Also as children grow their needs change so what might have appeared perfect at yr1 might not be perfect three years later. This is not helped by the fact that schools state and independent produce glossy prospectus and many indies are very slick marketing machines. You have to decide what you want from education in the ideal world and what sort of school you are looking for; single sex, state, indie, selective, super selective, sporty, day, boarding etc. and then if you can don?t deviate of this and then try and find a school that meets most of your criteria, you will never find a school that meets all of it and try not to be swayed by playground gossip into changing your mind.
Bursaries are more readily available at secondary level and the well-known schools e.g. St Pauls boys is likely to be significantly more generous than less well known schools so you could consider paying the full whack now and hope to get a place at a secondary which offers generous bursaries.
Having spent 9 years paying for my children my gut feeling is that you get what you pay for. If they're cheap than the average the question you need to ask yourself is why. Rememebr most costs are fixed e.g. teachers wages, so how are they managing to be significantly cheaper? I know little about day preps prices but I would have thought £12 000 of there abouts is pretty average or in fact on the cheap side as I'm sure many are more expensive. At a prep I would expect specialised teachers after yr 3, at least one MFL taught on a regular basis, at the very least two to three times a week and regular and easy access to reasonable facilities smaller classes, plenty of sport and a wide varietyof extra curricular activities. If its cheaper always ask why? Its worth looking at an expensive school (although they ar often far from perfect) to see what they provide then you will have some sort of benchmark.

Totally agree with HG don't beat yourself about the choice you made. You made that choice when you did with the best intentions!
One extra comment though is although you definitely get what you pay for, do remember day school fees at both prep and senior school tend to be higher if there is a boarding option at the school. So in these cases the reason you pay more might be because of this and not always because it is a better school.

I looked at some SE London (my old stamping ground) preps. Many are surprisingly under £12000 but IMO thee are a few points you should consider. Most only go to 11+ and as they are not preparing children for CE proably don't have specialised teachers/ classrooms etc in fact many years ago I looked at three of them and they certainly didn't. Compar this with Coler Court the prep school for St Pauls it's significantly more than £12 000 PA but it will be specialised teachers Latin at least 1 MFL if not 2 art dept DT and of course all of St Paul's wonderful facilities.
The former are just up market primary schools and the alternativeas you've

I looked at some SE London (my old stamping ground) preps. Many are surprisingly under £12000 but IMO there are a few points you should consider. Most only go to 11+ and as they are not preparing children for CE proably don't have specialised teachers/ classrooms etc in fact many years ago I looked at three of them and they certainly didn't. Compare this with Colet Court the prep school for St Pauls it's significantly more than £12 000 PA but it will be specialised teachers Latin at least 1 MFL if not 2 art dept DT and of course all of St Paul's wonderful facilities.
The former are just up market primary schools. The alternative as you've already suggested is to move and the obvious place is Kent where there are free grammar schools, you wouldn't be the first Londoner to do this! Some Kent primary schools will be pretty to similar to these cheaper preps many pride themselves on their high % of children that go onto the grammars and the way their lessons etc are organised reflect this. I can think of at least 2 in Kent that have ambitious pushy heads and there will more. Of course property prices/ rent reflect this and spaces are not always available. If you were seriously thinking of going down this road then you should post on Kent local MN for advise about which primary schools are "more academic".
Finally you say you are not elligable for a bursary Im assuming because your income is in excess £40 000 not all senior day schools have this as their cut off especially those charging £20 000+ PA so it's always worth speaking to the bursar.

happygardening, thanks a lot! MFL - omg, shall I then also teach DS some French next year to make it possible for him to join an indie secondary ?... I know it's not tested when they enter, but.. I've learned some Latin too in Uni, but really, we shall get no sleep then.

Another problem in terms of the ability to judge is also whether DS can get a scholarship at an indie secondary, - say, 50% would be fantastic. DS is very bright and creative, etc etc; but he makes mistakes sometimes as his thoughts are all over; will make errors copying sentences, that sort of thing. He doesn't get things immediately (doesn't click), needs some time. He is different from me, say, - I always found everything very easy, was very neat - but again, I am a girl.. And he is only 7. Overall, I don't know if it's worth aiming and hoping for, say, CLSB with a scholarship or move closer to a decent state secondary, or do both?

Thanks again to everybody!

OP Scholarships increasingly carry no financial reward but are frequent many cases more likely to get a bursary, The level required for a scholarships will of course vary your DS would have to be a reincarnation of Albert Einstein to get a scholarship into St Pauls but I suspect many going into St Paul's without scholarships would stand a good chance of getting one into St Dunstans. It is virtually impossible to tell if a 7 yr old will get one because not only do you obviously have to be able/very bright/ bloody hell clever but also be prepared to apply yourself.

I was going to say that scholarships are increasingly worth very little- although they may be supplemented with a bursary.

DH went to Winchester- he was in the scholar's house on pretty much a full fees scholarship (parents poor as church mice as they have 5 kids and 'worthy' jobs). I have looked at the admission information for Winchester recently. A scholarship now carries no reduction in fees- even in the scholar's house. They make it very clear that they would expect you do do things like sell your house before they would consider the level of any bursary.

TBH I think it's probably more doable to get bursaries/ financally attractive scholarships in schools that desperately need bums on seats- so not the top flight.