Interesting: teachers misconception about state school pupils ending in top Unis

[camaleon]

"Fewer than half of teachers at state schools would advise pupils to apply to top universities, a new study shows - but many do not realise that a majority of Oxbridge students come from state schools"

Article here

Yes, Xenia, people on the SE are cleverer. Oop North they're all thick. Thought everyone knew that.

Oh and Betty - on P6 of this Sutton Trust report it states that the overall figure for % of private school pupils who get into Oxbridge is 5.2%. So not 90% then. Glad that's clarified.

www.suttontrust.com/research/degree-of-success-university-chances-by-individual-school/

Still waiting for my apology. :)

Betty you are correct that DC from independent schools are vastly over represented at Oxbridge.

But I think things are slighltly different than you portray. First, whilst 7% of pupils are independently educated, in fact at sixth form level it's more like 18%.

Okay, that still leaves them over represented but less so than one would first think.

Second, of the schools from which many candidates come, a huge proportion are absurdly selective. The ability levels at some are so high that one would expect to see them in the top universities whereever they were educated. Few 'thick but rich kids' get a place these days.

That said, I do think it is a travesty how few comprehensivley schooled pupils apply. Students from the state sector are overwhelmingly from grammars. This is something we need to address. And we need to address it at a young age.

EvilTwins - not sure it does need to be changed wholesale. I 100% agree no-one should be discouraged from applying to Oxbridge because they are from a state school. And that all pupils should feel it is potentially open to them whatever school they come from.

But at the risk of being contentious, while going to Oxbridge has a lot going for it, it is not the be-all and end-all and for many courses they are not the best institutions nor the best fit for all students. There are lots of good unis. Oxbridge is good. But we should encourage all our students to achieve in their own way. Oxbridge is not the only way to achieve.

That's a stupid declaration unless half of the pupils from state schools go to The top unis, which they don't.

I don't think that Betty realises what white noise is...

Just as white light is made up of a wide spectrum of different frequencies of light, white noise is made up of a wide spectrum of different frequencies of sound. As a result it carries no information.

Absolutely nothing to do with racism, and everything to do with physics...

It's not really a tragedy if a bright student chooses to go elsewhere and succeeds there.

Starshit - what's a stupid assertion??

And I doubt the majority of the population coukd even afford to go to the too unis so why woukd teachers encourage it?

Donki - gosh, hadn't even occured to me that Betty might be that dim.

How is it stupid. There are simply not enough spaces for half of all 18yr olds to go to Oxbridge.

Eh?

bread it's not a tragedy obviously, but still not right.

Oxbridge still holds a lot of weight internationally and if any student fancies becoming a big noise in the Labour party it's pretty much de rigour .

I think we have to address this question rather than trying to steer around it by saying it's not the be all and end all. We have to make those students who have the ability understand that it is perfectly doable for them and also point out what they might gain by attending.

If parents can't/won't/don't do this, school really is the only other place no?

I think that Star may have mis-read/misunderstood your posts B&B - either that or I have failed entirely to understand her/his posts...

Why woukd ALL teachers encourage children to apply for the top unis when many work in schools with levels of deprivation that mean the child's not going to be able to compete and if they did, their parents wouldn't be able to afford to send them.

I certainly won't be encouraging my children to apply for the top unis and it has nothing to do with their IQ.

I wouldn't encourage mine to go to Oxbridge either, but it is not a financial issue. The Oxford financial arrangements for students from poorer backgrounds are very good compared to other universities.

star it costs just as much to study at lower tier universities!

If a youing person is going to take on that level of debt they may as well get the maximum bang for their buck - and Oxbridge gives that in terms of securing well paid employment.

You pay nothing now as it's all loans. However the poor appear too stupid to understand that or get out a calculator and work out how certain jobs will enable them to pay back debt. If this means people who cannot do those sums avoid good universities perhaps it's just as well they don't apply.

It isn't all loans. If your parents have a low income, you get some money that you don't have to pay back.

Every time I read your posts Xenia I am so very very relieved that none of my dcs are at or will go to your children's schools - a real possibility had we not 100% decided against it, as we live v near them.

Rubbish. Accommodation at the university of Cumbria is a fraction of Oxbridge as are living costs.

It doesn't matter whether you have to pay it back or not Seahorse, it isn't enough to cover the costs.

The first years fees for a student at Cumbria from a low income family are twice what they would be charged at Oxford, and the Cumbria student would get a smaller grant.

starshit - or is it betty under another name? - why would you send you child deliberately to a worse uni?

i just don't get that. Plenty of good unis in areas with cheap accom. Wouldn't have thought Cumbria was v cheap - hasn't been on my hols to the Lake District!! But almost any uni north of Midlands in the RG is going to have cheap places to live...

Oxford claims that the living costs per year (including money for socialising etc) are £7,600. A student from a family on £16,00 would receive 11,425, of which only £3,875 is a loan. The fees for that student would be £3,500, which are covered by a fees loan.