Interesting: teachers misconception about state school pupils ending in top Unis

[camaleon]

"Fewer than half of teachers at state schools would advise pupils to apply to top universities, a new study shows - but many do not realise that a majority of Oxbridge students come from state schools"

Article here

Lots of state pupils at Oxbridge come from grammar schools so I don't think anyone needs to be sad that some of the best schools in the country have the largest numbers getting into Oxbridge as those schools take few of the chidlren who apply. Also at those schools - Take NLCS daughter 2's school - 42% to Oxbridge - that is only 42% of some very clever girls. That means most girls don't go to Oxbridge from there. I am sure it would be the same with the state grammars too.

I suppose the acid test is if we took those children in comps who at 11+ might be some of the very few who would pass to state grammars or NLCS, Manchester grammar type schools and see how much worse they do than children who go elsewhere. I always want to find out about my other daughter's best friend who had to leave their school at 10 due to financial issues and went on to a state Catholic comp. They were very similar little girls at school. Mother worked in a shop, father drove a cab. I suppose it wouldn't be fair comparison as parental expectations would differ and example, not just the fact she moved schools. I will probably now find she's on £100k in the City I suppose and I hope she is.

So is performance of a school down to better teaching (anyone who went would benefit) or down to selection of 'very clever girls' etc etc?? If its just selection then why pay?

From personal experience, I think it's a slippery mix Betty.

DD's secondary is school is not highly selective, yet the results are superb. Far better than what one would expect (better for example the nearest grammar which is far more selective).

It seems to stem from a mixture of high expectation, supportive parents (this is the HT's main priority), good teaching in small, rigidly setted classes. The HT is also convinced that there is a correlation between good results and girls who atke part in the whole school community. So girls are encouraged to sing in the choirs, play in the sports teams yadda yadda.

Yes, a mixture.
There are lots of good teachers in the state system and most teachers work there but if you look at the better private schools more teachers have degrees in their subject, more are Oxbridge, more have been there for years, fewer changing teachers.

IObviously selection plays a part. If you have a class of children with an IQ of 90 they are not likely to be getting A* at GCSEs in traditional subjects than if the clas is everyone with over 115 - 120 IQ which was the grammar school and university entrance rough criteria.

"So is performance of a school down to better teaching (anyone who went would benefit) or down to selection of 'very clever girls' etc etc?? If its just selection then why pay?"

If it is just selection why pay? Because virtually no areas of the country have selective edcuation in the stae sector except a very few. Secondly it is not just selection. There are other things parents want and they vary from parent to parent. We are very musical and some of the children good at sport and you tend to find the best provision in the prviate sector for that. Look at what schools most of our Olympians went to etc

@Xenia from my sample of 1 the progression is indeed state catholic comp, Cambridge and earning more than that in the city. So don't worry about your daughter's former friend (why didn't they keep in touch?)

I suppose because they were about 10 when she left. They keep in touch for a while. Time just went by. I will ask her if she knows any news of hers. Yes ridiculous sample of 1 of course. It is just that they must both have had a high enough IQ to get into the school and most girls who try don't get in and then fate separated them. They were also pretty similar girls too in lots of ways. One of my sons is in touch with friends who left private school for state schools. Much easier work one says but then he's gone from academic selection to no selection except by religion so it's not a fair comparison. There are plenty of private schools for children whose IQs are not very high or indeed mixed ability.

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