Tiffin Schools Admission Arrangements

[tiffinboys]

Tiffin Schools (Boys & Girls) have issued their Determined Admission Arrangements for 2013-14. Boths Schools have decided to ignore pleas from the local community and opted to continue with Open Selection.

Though most of the grammar schools have catchment/proximity rules, some even going to the extent of denying applications to sit for their entrance test in breach of Grenwich ruling, Tiffins would continue open selection policies. Only handful of children from Kingston & surrounding areas get places in Tiffins. Most of the places go to the children living at very very far away places, eg. Harrow, Southall, Greenford.

Grammar schools from Bromley (St. Olave & Newstead Wood), Redbridge (Woodford County & Ilford County) or Barnet/Herts (DAO & Latymer) or Slough (Langley) would not allow out-of-catchment children to even apply for admission tests. Other schools like Kent grammars would only give places to children living near to the School. Some schools have most of the places for catchment area (Nonsuch, Wallington etc.).

This year, Reading grammars (Kendrik & Reading) and Chelmsford grammars (both boys & girls) have changed their over-subscription criteria from 100% open selection to 100% catchment and 80% catchment respectively.

It is high time that children from Kingston and surrounding areas also get level playing field. Until all grammar schools are 100% open selection, it is fair that some priority is restored for these children.

We have therefore proposed that Tiffins give 80% places on the basis of proximity to the Schools (or such other Centre point in the Borough, as previously proposed by the LA) to those children who pass the entrance tests. Other 20% may be given on open selection.

This proposal complies with Greenwich/Rotherham rulings. We are aware that it would take lot of persuation for the Governors of these school to accept this proposal. We call upon all parents from Kingston & Surrounding areas t write to the Tiffin Schools in support of this proposal and copy these to your local MPs and Councillors.

Would like to add, re: OP. When I lived in Kingston I quite liked the fact that only a very small amount of children from each year group went to the Tiffin Schools. If we had to have grammars, at least it didn't divide the class into 'clever' and 'not clever' because you could still be bright but not get in.

If Tiffin were to only take children from Kingston, it would change all secondary schools in the borough, not necessarily in a positive way. (Assuming that the OP is right and the majority of pupils are now out of borough).

I do however think that there should be another secondary in North Kingston, and Kingston funding for the Tiffin schools should be proportionate to the amount of Kingston pupils. (For all I know it already is).

Worst thing about 'out of borough' is that when said parents of these DCs actually find out you are local; live in KoT, within a few mins walking distance from the school - conversation just drops dead, there seems quite a lot of resentment against RBK parents - least from what we experienced. Which is wrong: our DCs were born, baptized and brought up here; surely then they have every right to attend their local grammar, or at least you would have thought so. If you are gonna make your DCs get up at the crack of dawn, travel miles & miles to school (...which i know is the case for some), hire private mini buses etc to bring them in - then that's your problem!!! To those parents, I'd just like to say get over it & stop being so chippy. (Oh, if you could actually attend a few meetings and contribute something to the community of the school as well; that would be gr8 - a richer life is about what you can bring, not just what you can take - which seems to be pretty much the jist of what this thread is about. Grammar schools - hey, what's in it for me, me, me: lol)

@merrymouse how about another secondary in South Central area of RBK; which would be of benefit to all, North & South of the borough alike. Tear down the wall; dismantle the N/S divide - do it once and for all. SC is where pretty much all of the remaining affordable land is; NK erected Sainsbury & Esporta posh health spa on the best possible site; now an posh, penthouses & apartments soon to follow (...under construction) on remaining land at Skerne/Canbury. Very shortsighted; but there is still a good possibility of a proper secondary that could cater for all around here.

...posh hotel.

lmao: 'Kingston Heights'.

Proximity of the proposed NK secondary to TGS/Fern Hill Primary is ludicrous; already have been fatalities on this stretch of road. To further increase traffic/congestion here would be a total disaster. Cannot believe they even considered it, let alone thought it the best option. [sceptical]

lol... or even .

...at a recent presentation on proposed expansion / new build there were just 4 parent attendees, myself included. Which is absolutely shocking; to add insult to injury - woman behind me leaned over to man (neither local) & said "Well i'm only here to find out whether it will benefit my son". Sad to say it, but for so many of the 'out of borough' crew, that attitude just about sums it up!!! They were all very conspicuous in their absence.

? How do you expect this thing to ever get built; where will the funding come from exactly, if these parents do not participate - engage, bring their support & join in. This is the worst of not having catchment / more locals - it would be built in double quick time i guarantee if Tiffin schools enjoyed the same levels of parental support that the local RBK primaries get. This is where the community really misses out; RBK & Tiffin alike.

...or beyond it - Phase 3 / Phase 4 for that matter? Tiffin could far outstrip the local grammar competition in practically every respect if parents committed more, got involved - really engaged. Heaven knows; we had to work hard enough to get in here - so why not make it count?

I don't think the people of north Kingston built Esporta and Sainsbury's themselves!

Only 4 people at presentation? That's shocking!

I just think they need to sort out secondary school places ASAP. Children who entered school just before and since the first emergency 'bulge' primary classes have had years of disruption and uncertainty. They deserve to leave building sites behind when they reach secondary school.

Anyway I am lucky to be well out of it.

Zoffany - what's 'bizarre' about having a general interest in my area's schools? Yes, my dd's only 3, but I'll have to start thinking about primary soon, so of course I'm also interested in secondary provision around here, in case that should have a bearing on my choice.

I didn't move to NK because I want my daughter to go to Tiffin - I didn't even realise what it was when we moved. I only started reading this thread because I'm interested in finding out more about it. I'm VERY under-informed compared to other people here.......

I don't have a chip on my shoulder about being a 'local' and wanting only 'local' girls to get in. I was only pointing out that having a super selective school on your doorstep creates a logistical difficulty for your own child's schooling.

And the main point of my post was the lack of secondary school in the local area and that Tiffin's lack of catchment could only be PART of the solution (if any solution at all).

minimouse - I also said that they're still planning to build a school but haven't got it all agreed yet.

Zoffany - apologies - you're a Kingston resident too. Somehow I took it from your first post to me that you thought I wanted to be treated specially because I live round the corner.

Absolutely spot on about the dangers of Richmond Road and the unsuitability of the site, however. The whole Skerne/Canbury development you're talking about is horrible, imo. Very poor town planning decisions at Town Hall. Although - tbf - we do need the supermarket. It's the only one for miles.

Not conscious of a N/S divide - what do you mean?

Re supermarket, they only realised they were short of school places in spring 2008. 200 children still had no reception place anywhere in June 08. Many children were being taught in corridors in sept 2008. Sainsbury's was finished a couple of years before this. Wasn't so much poor planning as no planning.

Agree that children in north of borough lose out if all kingston schools except Tiffins select on proximity. You are right, you should be interested because currently the council has not made provision for your child to have a secondary school place.

I was always a bit confused by the north south thing. However I think bit of Kingston nearer to posh bit of ham is generally considered more expensive because of proximity to park and petersham. Having said that, plenty of social housing in this area, just not so obvious as Cambridge estate which I think is considered to be in south (although it is metres from the north)

Sadly, this was inevitable i think: www.thisislocallondon.co.uk/news/9991253.Parents_outcry_over__unfair__Tiffin_entrance_exam_advantage/

@merrymouse Anyway I am lucky to be well out of it. Agree - you most certainly are!!!

@merrymouse. re: N/S divide - well NKers always cite Cambridge Estate; similarly they throw that one at you - as if we are responsible, we built it ourself??? As you correctly point out there is planty of social housing in NK, but residents there seem blind to it as though it doesn't exist. They are not held accountable!!! But we are...

All this leaves me wondering; will this year see us adding a 'Kingston Judgement' to those of Greenwich, etc. If challenges to the Tiffins selection fiasco are indeed to be mounted through the courts.

On a final point - although i do have some sympathy for the Tiffin schools; if indeed they are obligated to test all candidates as they claim, and the situation here is just awful - yet more controversy they both could well have done without; the suggestion by the Head of TS, given the situation re: three months extra cramming / tuition time afforded late applicants that "Many parents seem to think that the remaining weeks of practice will make a huge difference. This is not true." frankly beggars belief!!! How niaive is the supposition. So what difference will it make, and how precisely shall we quantify it, or make allowances. Presumably then if one follows the logic, had the first tranche sat end of June instead of September their scores would have been exactly the same. No discernible difference. Arrggghhh. I cannot imagine how this one can ever be resolved; rep of these schools is surely now in tatters.

That is where standardisation is supposed to comes in.
I'm not an expert, but its bit beyond the realms of possibility to Allow for 3 months extra tutoring learning.

Saw it covered in story today : www.surreycomet.co.uk/news/kingston/9991253.Parents_outcry_over__unfair__Tiffin_entrance_exam_advantage/

Sorry on my phone: "not beyond"

Results of what has now become Tiffin schools first tranche are being sent out today; so we will just have to wait and see how this whole mess plays out. If ultimately there is a discernible leap in cut-off, will potentially be legal mayhem. In any event, thanks a bunch to DC & his Bullingham cronies for yet another well thought out hair brained scheme. That's most definitely put parents in the driving seat & improved educational choice. Not. What's next, oh yeah - screw up the examinations system; lol: again!!!

@OhDearConfused. "not beyond the realms of possibility to Allow for 3 months extra tutoring learning." Well it is because it simply will not happen; the schools will normalize for age-weightings only; no allowances will be made for extra tuition since Tiffins always flatly deny it makes any difference. Indeed, why bother revising / rehearsing / practising for any exam then??? And to think these are amongst the best schools in UK...

TS Head has now gone public and said it; admissions have also said it in conversation - it is the Tiffin stock response. Me.thinks it a bit niaive personallly, still would be most deleriously happy if were to be proved wrong!!!

Colchester Grammars do open selection right now too. Though that is likely to change next year with a change to a 10 mike catchment area.

God knows what a 10 mike catchment area is?! 10 MILE!