Tiffin Schools Admission Arrangements

[tiffinboys]

Tiffin Schools (Boys & Girls) have issued their Determined Admission Arrangements for 2013-14. Boths Schools have decided to ignore pleas from the local community and opted to continue with Open Selection.

Though most of the grammar schools have catchment/proximity rules, some even going to the extent of denying applications to sit for their entrance test in breach of Grenwich ruling, Tiffins would continue open selection policies. Only handful of children from Kingston & surrounding areas get places in Tiffins. Most of the places go to the children living at very very far away places, eg. Harrow, Southall, Greenford.

Grammar schools from Bromley (St. Olave & Newstead Wood), Redbridge (Woodford County & Ilford County) or Barnet/Herts (DAO & Latymer) or Slough (Langley) would not allow out-of-catchment children to even apply for admission tests. Other schools like Kent grammars would only give places to children living near to the School. Some schools have most of the places for catchment area (Nonsuch, Wallington etc.).

This year, Reading grammars (Kendrik & Reading) and Chelmsford grammars (both boys & girls) have changed their over-subscription criteria from 100% open selection to 100% catchment and 80% catchment respectively.

It is high time that children from Kingston and surrounding areas also get level playing field. Until all grammar schools are 100% open selection, it is fair that some priority is restored for these children.

We have therefore proposed that Tiffins give 80% places on the basis of proximity to the Schools (or such other Centre point in the Borough, as previously proposed by the LA) to those children who pass the entrance tests. Other 20% may be given on open selection.

This proposal complies with Greenwich/Rotherham rulings. We are aware that it would take lot of persuation for the Governors of these school to accept this proposal. We call upon all parents from Kingston & Surrounding areas t write to the Tiffin Schools in support of this proposal and copy these to your local MPs and Councillors.

So - as Zoffany says - there will be ever more test dates. Every time someone says "test my DC", Tiffin will do so. I suppose it will be a decreasing number each time, mind.....

Still got my eye on a date in February - should be less stressful for DS if he is on his own .

zoffany51 - Yes, it is correct that if you put Tiffins as your second preference and qualify for a place at your first preference you will be offered that rather than Tiffins. That isn't what you said in your earlier post, although it may be what you meant. You implied that putting Tiffins as a low preference means you won't be admitted regardless of whether or not your higher preferences had places.

And yes, I do think that Tiffins will have to run tests repeatedly. Just for clarity, although the deadline for the CAF is 31st October you may still be treated as an on time applicant if you apply by 14th December. They will therefore have to test everyone who applies by that deadline.

If you apply after 14th December you are definitely late and your child only be considered if there are not enough on time applicants so there will be no need to test your child immediately. Most people who apply after mid-December will do so because they have just moved into the area rather than through disorganisation.

Once the waiting list is in operation (i.e. after the initial offers have been made) any late applicants must be included and cannot be put at the back of the list because they were late. Tiffins will either have to test any late applicants at this point or, at the very latest, test them when a place becomes available so that they can order the waiting list correctly.

@zoffany at 13:47 Since Tiffin wants the brightest only those who sat first test and that are knocked out by those who scored higher on second are not in the "brightest" 140 of those wanting to go. That's how it can be fair.

Yes - its rough round the edges with standardardisations / different sample sizes. But (hey) lets face it 1600 of those 1700 DS are of "grammar standard". Its a lottery how much parents want to pay or can afford to pay for tutoring that determines it.

zoffany at 13:51 sounds like that tutoring you describe is a little bit too much. There are only so many practice papers. My guess is that it makes no difference and may backfire on the child. And they had a crap summer. poor kids.

Tiggytape - My apologies. I missed a sentence on the admissions page of Wilsons website where it says they rank by score. That being the case I fail to see how they can comply with the Admissions Code if they do not test all candidates. At a minimum I think they must test everyone who applies by 31st October. If they refuse to do so I think their position at admission appeals will be untenable. I can't see any way of interpreting that other than as a refusal to admit a child solely because they missed the entrance test.

This thread is moving too fast!

I agree that lack of clarity is a problem. The practises used by Wilsons and Suttons would have been acceptable under the old code where testing took place after the closing date for applications. Now that tests have to be conducted earlier I think they are wrong.

It needs a parent to refer Wilsons, Sutton or Tiffins to the Schools Adjudicator. Personally I would go for Wilsons or Sutton and argue that they are effectively refusing to admit pupils solely because they miss the test.

@OhDearConfused sounds like that tutoring you describe is a little bit too much. There are only so many practice papers. My guess is that it makes no difference and may backfire on the child. well... actually the child in question plateaued / levelled off at a consistent 99% which must have been frustrating for *; but however you look at it the parents have effectively bought a Tiffin place. Which is basically shocking. (So that's 1700 for 139.)

*...meant 'for him/her'.

!!!oops.

@OhDearConfused. Since Tiffin wants the brightest hmm, not sure about that one either; so why are there children in class avec dictionary who simply do not even know what a vase is then (in English)??? I'd have thought if you were in top couple of percent of country ability wise that your vocab should stretch to that.

...the test is the test and that's it; it proves little more i'm afraid than the candidates ability (or otherwise) to pass it.

Actually: its 1699 for 139 ? so slightly better odds.

(But who knows if the child performed on the day? Which is what gets me about all this excessive tutoring (and why we will go a gentler approach ? we are a year away). Yes, it may make a difference, and may get you the place. But such a large investment/effort ? just imagine how you?d feel if there was a mess-up on the day. Or if they changed the test to something completely different/unpractised for. )

@OhDearConfused -- Yes, that's true.

Thx for correcting my math; u shud have no trouble!!!

@Treats - btw, why are you reading a Tiffin Schools Admission Arrangements thread with a 3 yr old - and why find it 'interesting' with a daughter of that age - utterly bizarre; Tiffin seems an obsession for all NK parents, practically from the point of conception!!! Still remember all the bitchy 'Tiffin talk' between the mums in the playground from reception at a particular NK primary; 'head start'; DSs/DDs, each & every one of them very t&g (naturally... chip off the old block), pushy delusional parents & all that crap: lol - some considerable number of years later and actually none of them got in. Not a single one. So at least there's some justice in this world.

As i pointed out previosult, seconday schools issue is RBK wide - not a peculiarity to NK 'principality' (lol: though never would you guess it .) Many live within touching distance of the school, 'specially TS and live in (dare i say it); South Central.

oops... previously.

...some actually get in. Very few to my knowledge do so from NK; so maybe these children are just overpressured.

As regards catchment though - a good many of the children are 'local' - RBK or not far beyond; certainly at TS this is the case, so rumours of boys commuting in from Mars or further afield are not true!!!

Similarly, from what i can gather - few girls i think attend TGS from Venus and beyond; the girls are mainly 'locals' or thereabouts. So the initial thrust of this thread is maybe not so pressing an issue as some might consider it. Just lack of secondaries vs. primaries numbers coming up in RBK in general. Whether a free school will ever materialise in KoT; personally i doubt it, most parents here want it laid on or else just moan about it. Setting up a new school would simply require too much effort; better off go skiing. Which is also why i gather many want Tiffins as sponsor; however, this is also highly unlikely to happen, imo. So the problem persists.

@tiggytape - agree; if all grammars allowed late testing that at least would even out the field. Also agree Tiffin is not trying to be unfair - but to prospectives it can feel that way.

Treats I thought that they were going to build a new secondary school in North Kingston (probably on Richmond Road) to cope with all the additional classes already established and continuing increase in demand for places.

I know they lost the funding they had been promised under Labour (Building for Schools), but I didn't think they had dropped the plans?

(Used to live in North Kingston but moved out of London, this thread is like a return to 2006 - thought things had moved on? No grammar schools round here, nobody talking about Tiffins - Woohoo!)

(But I still seem weirdly drawn to comment on this thread