Is there anyway to find how much a private school would give?

[lisad123]

As a bursery? We are considering it for dd1 who is 9. Her school is on notice to improve and the head has left, it's going downhill fast. She G&T in three subjects and in a large class. The school have told me and it's in the Ofstead reports that they spend more time managing poor behaviour than challenging those more able. I completely understand that, behaviour needs to be sorted out but it doesn't help my dd.
Dd1 has HFA, and we feel a smaller class would be better for her, but we are surrounded by large schools.
I have spoken to nearest small private school and they are sending out forms but the lady on the phone couldn't tell me much. She said you fill in a form, send it back, they send someone round to discuss and then decision is set by governors.
Is there a standard idea of earnings vs fees?
We don't earn much and live in a small two bed terrance locally.
I am fully aware of the feelings of G&T on MN. I would also add that dd1 has high functioning autism and we are proud everyday of all the wonderful things she's does, not just the education, she is polite, sweet and has a wonderful laugh :)

Any help would be great

Some schools give broad guidelines on website/ in prospectus, but it really does depend on individual circumstances. There are a lot of factors to take into consideration regarding income and outgoings wjich is why the school can't give you a definitive answer until they have looked at your circumstances.

As a broad guide, many say that they would not expect recipients of a bursary to have a very expensive house, new expensive cars or be taking expensive foreign holidays. It doesn't sound like you come into that category.

No I'm def not in that category

it varies school to school. Our school gives a maximum in scholarships and bursaries combined of 75% of the fees. They will never go over the 75% mark. Scholarships are worth up to 20% so am guessing the bursary would be only up to 55% as they add them together to get the 75%.

Other schools near ours give up to 90% andI have heard one gives 100% but that is just rumour so not sure how true.

Fill the forms in and find out, maybe talk to the bursar as they are in the best place to advise. Nothing ventured nothing gained there is no harm in going through the process and then deciding at the end that it isn't right for you.

Be aware though the additional costs, not covered by scholarships and bursaries are massive at most schools. The extra trips, music, activities all add up and you will need to take these costs into account when looking at whether you can afford it. Our school gives prospective parents a break down of school trip costs over the years and activity costs so you can judge how much extra you need.

Also be aware that smaller class sizes sometimes bring issues with friends. This is why we chose a school with small classes (15max) but 3 forms in a year.

They say on their website that they will cover up to 100%. They don't have scholarships at present.

Some schools state on their websites the % they generally offer and more and more schools are producing yearly reports detailing how big a %'s they offer and to how many children. My own DS's school offer primarily 50% bursaries and more boys receive 50% than other amounts but they do give 100% to a couple (we're talking 100% of £31 000 so a lot of money).
Lots of factors come into play when offering bursaries. The most obvious is how wealthy the school is. Basically well known schools like Eton are basically more generous with their bursaries because most of the bursary money is raised from past and existing parents donations and sometimes assets. You don't have to be a genius to work out that parents/old boys from schools like Eton are likely to have more money and thus be more generous. Also remember these are charitable donations currently with hefty tax saving implications. Other factors are how much a school wants your DS, the amount you are likely to require, obviously most schools would rather give small bursaries to enable five children to attend the school than a large bursary to one. There is no standard figures when it comes to bursaries. You will frequently read on MN that if you have an income of over £40 000 PA you will not get one certainly when it comes to bursaries from boarding schools this is obviously tosh. And you will also read posting from people who have been offered 50% by one school and 75% by another thus illustrating my point that it all depends on the school and its finances.
One final point if you are considering a prep school i.e. no attached senior, I would advise you to be careful. You may be very lucky and get a bursary from a prep school although generally they have less money than senior schools so are less generous but getting bursaries for children with any significant type of learning difficulty at senior level can be very difficult indeed. Secondly if she requires any individual learning support you are likely to be charged extra for this and it can be very expensive and may not be up to the standard that you are hoping it might be.

It has a senior school too.
Dd1 does not need a 1-1 at all, never has and doubt she ever would. Thanks for the information. It's a small school and not well known like Eton.
They have said to come and look around. I'm unsure whether to take her with me. I would like them to meet her, mainly to relieve any fears they may have about her having HFA. But don't want her to love it and then not go.

I would look around without your DD until you have had a decision on the bursary. As you say it would be awful to get her excited about the place and then have to say no.

Re: looking around /school meeting your DD this is difficult meeting her might swing it and persuade them to offer a bursary but in the other hand if they don't offer her a bursary you don't want to raise her hopes then cruelly dash them. Work out how much you need be really realistic ring the bursar and explain you will need X% reduction, emphasise that your not looking for a final decision but could they/do they have a big enough pot to offer this amount. Explain in your circumstances; its particularly important not to raise you DD's hopes if it was never a goer financially. The school would have to be pretty mean and therefore not the right place of they don't understand this.

lisa, they haven't said no

I don't think there is a set ratio - it will depend on a lot, including how much they 'want' your dd to attend (not just on a SN front, but in terms of how gifted etc)

I went to a private school, on nearly 100% scholarship/bursary. the official line was a 2/3 scholarship, but there was always extra money to be found to enable me to stay there - extra essay prizes, or music tuition fees, or 3rd/4th/5th year 'exhibition' (extra bursary). this was secondary, but I had the same (although not as extreme - 'only' 60% of fees at prep too)

I would go and look around, without dd initially (I am sure school would understand your reasoning on that - and you can always go again with her if it works out), and have a good talk through with the school.

do be aware about uniforms/extras. there will probably be a reasonable second hand shop, but anything new is likely to be pricey. trips and extras - well, again, if the trip was fairly essential for a subject, money was found for me to go (we were really poor - think homeless/B&B/council temporary housing).

I did not suffer particularly from being 'the poor one' either. yes, there were a few snidey comments, but then those girls would have been bitchy about something else - it was just their character, unfortunately.

Don't take her to look around until it's all sorted, she should get a taster day if you decide to send her there. They look at your income so it depends on this and how much money is in the pot.

Thanks silverfrog, good to know. I haven't told them about dd1 HFA, I'm not quite sure when to mention it tbh. I don't want to lie but am fully aware that private schools have no problems asking children to leave either. She isn't her dx, and most people still think behavioural issues and meltdowns when they hear autism. She does very well on school, always follows the rules and works hard.

does she have any sensory issues, lisa? this, I think, would be the most likely stumbling block for a lot of schools, as it does seem all encompassing (and sometimes hard to consistently cater for, if a lot of activity going on)

I knw what you mean re: when to tell them. dd1 was rejected from our (then) local prep school nursery because of her ASD dx. she behaved fine at the settling sessions, and knew more (in pre-school terms, so colour, shape etc) than they expected ehr to, but they still wouldn't take her. their loss.

I woudl look around, and have the talk re: finances. if that works out ok (you may well not get a final answer re finances before they meet dd anyway - they will probably want to see 'what they are investing in') then take dd along for a taster day/to meet everyone.

if that goes ok, I would then raise the HFA issue. after all, by that point, they will be charmed by your dd . as you say, she is not her dx. and given she doesn't seem to have many (any?) overt issues with school, then she deserves the right to be met as a person, not a label.

Sensory issues aren't too bad, her main difficulties are with wanting to be perfect and failure. She likes to know what's happening. Generally we get more of her behaviours at home.
There is already another girl with HFA there in the school which makes me happy

some private schools can be a lot more overt about competition, and position in class etc. how would your dd react to eg coming second, rather than top? does she mind relative placements, or is it more her own personal best that she strives for?

knowing what is happening in advance tends ot be better at private schools, ime. I get a termly calendar for dd2 - everything is marked out, colour coded according to year, and all trips, meetings, even choir practise/play rehearsals are mapped out. of course, there may be the occasional last minute change (ie a couple of days beforehand), but generally not.

also, even if competition is not htere on an individual level, then there is usually a house competition/form competition of some sort going on, and the displays of house points can be a bit 'in your face'. all fine if you are part of the winning house, but harder if you struggle with failure, and your house is coming last...

I think you should explain to the school your daughter has HFA early on in the application process do you have an ed psych/paediatrians report detailing her condition and how it effects her? Its not something I'm overly familiar with but it must impact on her life in a variety of ways even if she doesn't behavioural problems and not to tell the school from the beginning I suspect could irritate them considerably it looks like you're hiding it. If they don't want her because of it it's the wrong school for her. Ive spent many years dealing with private schools and one of my sons has a severe proceasing type disorder so my advise from bitter experience is be upfront about your DD before any of you waste time and emotional energy looking at this school.

She doesn't mind coming second it's more about her personal best.

It depends whether they like her and you :-)

If she is academic and is likely to 'add value' to the school through her achievements then they are much more likely to knock more off (IME and O).

If it helps my daughter also had an ed psych report in year 4 which suspected HFA/OCD/Aspergers. We moved her from state to private where she flourished (more traditional, calm teaching, reliable clubs and classes (at the state primary things were always being cancelled which meant she was too frightened to join anything in case she didn't know whether it was on or not), smaller classes, quieter, better pastoral care) She flourished so much that we didn't pursue the dx and she now is doing very well at the senior part of the school.

"knowing what is happening in advance tends ot be better at private schools, ime. I get a termly calendar for dd2 - everything is marked out, colour coded according to year, and all trips, meetings, even choir practise/play rehearsals are mapped out. of course, there may be the occasional last minute change (ie a couple of days beforehand), but generally not.
"

YES silverfrog this is invaluable to her and us (and me as a working mother of three!!) dd1 has a blackberry (she is in yr 7) and I put in all the matches/clubs/events on my calendar and copy her in on them - works so well for her.

Be aware, too, that they will be looking at you and sounding out your attitudes, how supportive you will be of the school etc. - as GSG says "no school wants the parent from hell!". Anything you can casually throw into the conversation can help. When we went for a bursary an aside mention that grandfather was a university lecturer was rapidly scribbled down on the note-pad, as was dad having been headboy at his school! We got a bursary.

huptwothree - dd2 is only in reception, so n blackberry for her yet

but we do mark it out on the family calendar (again, colour coded according to person), and it goes in my phone and dh's blackberry.

really helps with everthing - especially knowing when to coordinate dd1's school meetings/termly statement reviews etc so as not to clash with anything.

Silverfrog made some very good points. I think it would be good to take your DD with you when you visit (or is there an open day soon where you could go more "anonymously" and not feel under pressure to perform? ) What if you love it but she doesn't? Do bear in mind all the extras - my DS's go to a small, not terribly academic private school and there always seems to be something to pay out for. Even if it's only small amounts, for example two trips this week, £10 each, they are constantly having book fairs etc where there is a pressure to buy something. From year 4 they have at least one residential trip a year and almost all children go on them, although with things like skiing there's no pressure that you HAVE to go. They do have an excellent second hand shop and I've got most of my DCs clothes from there.

Re your daughter's autism - my DS2 has Asperger's and he is doing so much better at this school rather than his old school ("outstanding" state school but very pressurised and obviously large class sizes). There are only 18 children in his class so he gets lots of attention and doesn't feel overwhelmed by the noise etc like he did at his old school. He is not G&T, has some 1:1 (although it will have to be paid for once he is in the secondary part of the school). I find there is less pressure because they don't do SATS so there isn't that need to fit in to a neat little box like everyone else. The only thing my son doesn't like is that there can often be changes to the routine - because of all the extra sporting activities and trips so he does sometimes say he doesn't know whether he's coming or going! If your daughter doesn't like change maybe best to prepare her for that (also they have specialist teachers so it's not like being in a permanent state school classroom with one teacher, they move about the school a lot!!)

Another girl I know goes there with HFA. So fully aware of trips, also they move classes for subjects which I think makes sense. The current class has 19 pupils. In senior most leave for the local secondary schools which takes class sizes to between 6-10.
They have a timetable. The SENCO sounds very good (only from other parent) who will call if changes are made or any issues.
Thanks for all the wonderful advice.

We have an appointment to visit on Monday
Have made the decision to take dd1 with me because I need to know if it's something she likes too. I have asked for a word with the senco while there. I'm going to be upfront and think on meeting dd1 they will see that she is able to manage a MS setting.

Hope it goes well Lisa, I think it's best to be open about it all and it sounds like the SENCO is supportive so that's a good sign.