what age does your school start teaching another language?

[cheapandchic]

I am not from the UK and I have just started researching primary schools for my 2 girls. I am finding it rather disappointing that many schools do not start teaching a foreign language at year one. I am very keen on them being bilingual.

I can speak italian and spanish although, neither perfectly...I would like to teach them but was really hoping the school would as well. I feel strongly that its important to start young. What do you do if you try to teach them spanish and then the school you get accepted in teaches only french?

Do private schools start sooner? Do you tutor your children after school? What do you do?

Nursery

Children cannot become bilingual with a couple of hours a week of speaking another language!!!

french begins in reception vfor my dd at state primary but this unusual in this area, but to be honest not sure it would be anywhere near encouraging them to have an advanced ability. my dd in year 1 since recpetion, knows days of week, count to 20, mini beast names, some animal names, clothing, musical instruments and a handfull of songs. It is enjoyable a nice break from the usual lessons but I dont think you can relly upon primary school to teach you children an advanced language.

Agree with Posie - lessons at school are unlikely to produce a bilingual child. My dd started learning mandarin chinese at age 2 (we live in China) and is not fluent (just turned 6), but does have perfect tones. She has 40 minutes of chinese every day.
Ds is fluent in German because we lived in Germany and Austria and he went to kindergarten and school there for 5.5 years. He learnt the language as a native speaker would and started at kindergarten with nothing other than please, thank you and I need to go to the loo. He also speaks mandarin, but not fluently.
I still tutor my ds in German and he also has 1.5 hours of Chinese with a private tutor every week and 40 mins per day at school.

Year 1 or 2 (private) and then it is French. Agree with others unless you are a native speaker and can reinforce at home, or go to visit family abroad on long holidays, the odd lesson at school will make little or no difference to being able to speak it later on.

DS's school does French from Y3. But it's about 40 minutes a week - I do not expect him to attain any degree of fluency.

French from Kindergarten, Spanish and Latin from Year 7.

why should it be the school's job to make all children multilingual before the age of 11 when only 1 in 100 parents will want that

IMHO modern foreign languages in primary schools are a pointless waste of time and nothing more than a box-ticking exercise.

My niece in the UK has been doing French at her primary for 4 years. She can say the days of the week, sing Frère Jacques and count to 20.

But when my French DH asks her a simple question ("bonjour, ça va?" or "tu as bien dormi?") she is completely and utterly baffled.

My DC are balanced biliguals but it takes a lot of effort and determination.

A waste of time? Are you serious? Why should it be the job of the school? Really?

because in many countries around the world children are taught 2 languages as a minimum. Because the world does not just consist of english speakers. Because being able to communicate in a second language develops your cognitive thinking and broadens your horizons. Because learning another language as a child is one hundred times easier than learning it as an adult.

Grey- what effort do you do?

"many countries around the world"
please list those that do so at pre age 11
only listing G20 for a start ....

English will always be the language of business and diplomacy because it is THE BEST for doublespeak / diplomacy / caveats / lying - even when China and the far east become economically dominant

other European languages are frankly a waste of time nowadays
other than possibly south american versions of spanish and portugese

I recently spoke to my DDs French teacher (who is German) about language teaching in Europe. She said, in her opinion, it is no better than in the UK, but that there is added incentive to learn English, and that they often have the advantage of English language films, pop music etc.

Certainly, a friend of mine who is Albanian speaks Italian fluently from the television she watched growing up.

To answer the question, at my DDs' junior school, they learnt French from reception to year 2, then a year of Spanish, then German, then Mandarin, before a final year of French in Y6 (this was a bloody disaster, and was introduced and abandonned while they were at the school.) My DS's school starts at Y3, (ie the first intake is at Y3) and they teach Mandarin to Y6, then add French in Y6. At his previous school, he learnt Spanish from reception, although I believe it was also taught at the nursery, which he did not attend.

A waste of time? Are you serious?

I agree it is a waste of time, there are few if any primary teachers with MFL as either their degree or subject specialism.

What has happened in most schools is the HT has told someone "you have GCSE French - you teach the kids French"

Then the secondary teachers have to undo the poor teaching (through no fault of the teacher at primary - they have done their best) before starting to teach MFL properly.

"My DC are balanced bilinguals but it takes a lot of effort and determination."

I agree with Greythorne that bringing up DC to speak more than one language requires a certain amount of stamina and resources. I don't, however, think that the teaching of MFL in primary schools in the UK would be a waste of time if it were done properly, with native speaker teachers. It is, however, an utter waste of time and resources to ask people who don't speak a language eg French fluently themselves to attempt to teach children that language, and a lot of harm can be done. At my DD's school quite a few DCs have Filipina nannies who the parents ask to speak "English" to the children. Those children's English is almost permanently damaged by the experience!

because in many countries around the world children are taught 2 languages as a minimum. Because the world does not just consist of english speakers. Because being able to communicate in a second language develops your cognitive thinking and broadens your horizons. Because learning another language as a child is one hundred times easier than learning it as an adult.

Thanks for explaining this to me. I am the parent of two balanced bilinguals, so I am pretty much aware of the importance of language learning. However, my point is that language learning in primary (one hour a week, learning the days of the week etc.) is entirely pointless and does not help children speak (or write for that matter) in the target language.

What do I do?

Well, I have become a SAHM in order to support my children's minority language, I ensure that all media (TV, magazines, computer games) are in English, despite opposition from the children, I drive them to English school once a week at 7-15am, hang around in the cold for three hours whilst they do their English (UK National curriculum) class, facilitate non-local friendships with other children who speak English, take all our holidays in sunny Lancashire.....the list is really quite long. I am happy to do it all and, my god, it has paid off, with two DC whose language skills are astonishing.

I think you are missing my point. I am not against language learning but the way Uk (and other countries) primary schools teach MFL is pointless.

Going back to your original post, OP, unless you choose a bilingual primary school which specialises in two languages, with lesson time split into two languages, your children have no chance of becoming bilingual by the effort of the school alone.

You say you are not from the UK. If you speak another language, you can achieve bilingualism with determination and graft at home. But you need to get started ASAP. And not rely on the school. Certainly not a Uk state primary!

TBH, I haven't seen any children become bilingual through school alone.

Bonsoir: I was thinking of Welsh / English schools in Wales....

But those are bilingual communities/cultures and children get the language from other sources. We had this discussion at school recently as there was some move to get inspiration from the Welsh NC but there isn't much to be gained in our context as the amount of external exposure to English cannot be "guaranteed".

But there are some children in North Wales who do not have Welsh as a home language and yet learn Welsh very effectively in school.

Sure, it's not their home language, but there is a cultural attachment to the language. The trouble with bilingual schools in the Paris context is that most families view English as an economic tool or social status symbol and there is no cultural attachment. But the cultural attachment is a much greater driver of fluency in children than the economic or social status aspects!

But in general, I agree with you ane even bilingual school, unsupported by parents, environment, will not be enough.

I see this already at the Wednesday programme my DC attend. There are franco-francais children wiyh French parents who have been liviing in the US for 5+ years. They return to France soeaking fluent English and yet, here we are, less than one year back in France and these children with French parents are struggling madly with the homework, cannot keep up in class, look really rather lost in class time. I feel sorry for them.

The class is intensive for my DC (homework, phonics, reading) and I can perfectly imagine that for a franco-francais family, the pace is just too great, even after 5 years in the US.

The problem is identical at DD's school with French families returning from the US or UK. If they DCs didn't learn to read (fluently, not just decoding) and write a bit at school in the US or UK, and have the autonomy to carry on reading, their exposure to English in the Paris context is totally insufficient for them to maintain the same rate of progression as DCs who are speaking English at home with (a) parent(s) every day, visiting GPs regularly, have homes full of English books and DVDs etc.

How does the school handle it, Bonsoir?

It is one thing to offer support to children struggling with essential skills via soutien but how do you go about supporting and helping children in a second language above and beyond the lessons in that medium?

Some Franco-French DCs (the ones with the less pushy or lower-profile parents) quickly get demoted out of the "bilingual/native speaker" stream to the class below (called "advanced"). Parents who are pushier/more pro-active get their children au pairs/tutors etc. But the school does nothing, but nothing, to help those children maintain their skills (or even give guidance to parents to help them).