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Original poster

What's in it for the people who set up Free Schools?

28 replies

seeker · 03/04/2012 12:06

just that, really.

OP posts:
nickelhasababy · 03/04/2012 12:09

i don't think there is, is there?
it's not-for-profit, it's just to ensure there's a decent school.

i think.

Original poster
seeker · 03/04/2012 12:16

Hmmm [cynical emoticon]

OP posts:
SchoolsNightmare · 03/04/2012 12:29

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

nickelhasababy · 03/04/2012 13:18

thought you might have struck upon an idea seeker Wink

Original poster
seeker · 03/04/2012 13:24

I was just looking at the website for The Tiger School and something about it made me feel a bit hmmmm.

OP posts:
nickelhasababy · 03/04/2012 13:26

sounds like they've thought through what's really needed in a school.

the first schools (sunday schools) were set up by a man who had no ulterior agenda but that he thought it important that children should learn to read and write.

nickelhasababy · 03/04/2012 13:26

"the first free schools (sunday schools) "

AfricanExport · 03/04/2012 13:33

Well, I am going to a initial discussion on Thursday regarding the setting up of Business and Technology Academies which is being hosted by a group of Legal, Consulting and Finance firms in London. The reason they are doing it is because something needs to be done. Schools are simply not doing the job required and it is fine to say that's not true but at the end of the day we need to upskill the population if we are going to succeed and neither this government, nor the last, have been capable of doing that. These are global firms/companies that cannot find people, british citizens, who have the skills they require. so they either put in the effort, accept that the government is not capable of doing it and do it themselves.

So I suppose that people have to do it themselves. Most people who are interested in setting these schools up are successful in their own right and there is nothing in it for them. My kids go to independent schools - yhere is nothing in it for me - other than the fact that I know in 10 years time we may have less people on benefits because of the fact the people, who had nothing to gain, cared enough and saw the issues.

We may be able to hire more British people to be engineers, scientist and IT developers etc. because we bothered to educate them to a level that they are competent and have some aspirations.

It's is actually about narrowing the gap between rich and poor, about giving those children who have the potential the opportunity to succeed in a school that offers them the same as a Private school would.

I suppose ultimately, what's in it for them, is staff and a long-term plan.

ragged · 03/04/2012 14:23

I think a lot of it is a way for people with idealist agendas to pursue their narrow visions, and feel they are working hard for that, doing everything they can do to make it happen. Because many of the people who get involved are zealots, the potential for them to mutually fall out by forming entrenched factions is high. So, many of them won't end up feeling rewarded, they'll be just as cynical & disillusioned as ever. The standards about what forms a "decent school" are fairly varied, and different factions will find out they have completely different visions in the end. The blurbs I've seen from those trying to set up local free school are vague, it's like reading a horoscope, the blurbs could mean anything to anyone, whatever you want it to mean.

Some people will be highly satisfied, but lots who put lots of effort in won't. And then there will be shock horror gasp when the school ends up with the usual problems: bullying, truancy, spoilt brats, vandalism, bad attitudes, under-achievers, parents who don't want to be "involved", just want to dump their kids & run, too.

Who, me, cynical? Hope they prove me wrong, eh?

ConfusedGovernor · 03/04/2012 15:20

Don't you think some people believe passionately in education and want all children to be educated?

I do.

I've given up a substantial amount of my time - at a considerable cost to myself (ie I've lost thousands of pounds in wages) to help my local school.

For no gain (besides a warm fuzzy inside). Just because I believe all children deserve an education.

Do you really think everything revolves around money?

silverfrog · 03/04/2012 15:25

why does everything have to be met with a cynical Hmm?

my dd1 attended a tiny, set up by a parent, school for a bit. it was exactly right for her. (this was before Free schools - the concept was introduced while she was there, and I know the head/owner/setter-up looked into changing the type of school it was)

the head set it up because she was not able to find what she needed in a school for her son. I sent dd1 there because I too was not able to find what was needed for her elsewhere.

there was certainly no raking it in of profits. the whole thing was run on shoe string budgets, and very hand to mouth. but it worked for the children there, when no other place ever had.

Original poster
seeker · 03/04/2012 15:25

Yes, I do want children to be educated. That 's what things called "schools" are for.

OP posts:
Original poster
seeker · 03/04/2012 15:27

And no, I do not meet everything with cynicism. But you just read The Tiger School website and tell me it doesn't make you q tiny bit uncomfortable. And I am also uneasy about people with specific agendas starting schools un monitored.

OP posts:
ConfusedGovernor · 03/04/2012 15:36

The one (and only) thing all free schools have in common is that they're trying to do things differently than state schools.

They all believe there is something about state schools that can be improved.

This does not imply that state schools can be improved in the same way - because they have different restrictions to free schools.

Original poster
seeker · 03/04/2012 15:48

And what if that thing is, for example, teaching creationism?

OP posts:
nickelhasababy · 03/04/2012 16:15

the link i put states that the rules about Free Schools includes not being allowed to teach creationism as science

nickelhasababy · 03/04/2012 16:16

this link

"Since the closure of the Consultation Phase the DfE have revised their Funding Agreement for schools opening in 2012. There are some important additions to the Agreement in its current form. These include the following which have been specifically mentioned by the DfE in recent correspondence and we believe it important we make you aware of:

· Free Schools must promote principles that support fundamental British values
· The Secretary of State can recover debts owed to the Department through claw back of GAG
· Forbidding the delivery of curricula that run contrary to established scientific and historical evidence and explanations (preventing the teaching of, e.g., creationism as a science and Holocaust denial). "
Fayrazzled · 03/04/2012 16:22

AfricanExport- I don't buy that the global legal, finance and consulting firms you speak of are interested in setting or up being involved in free schools/academies because they can't get decent British workers. If they are global businesses, they can get what they need elsewhere (and I'm pretty sure many are based in the UK because they CAN get talented employees here). Businesses of the type you list are motivated by one thing, and one thing only- the profit motive. That's the point of businesses like these in a capitalist society- to make money for their owners whether they're partners or shareholders. They have no business to be educating our children.

silverfrog · 03/04/2012 16:23

I don't understand why people have a problem with them (but hten, as I said, I actively sought out, and was incredibly grateful when I found, an alternative school for dd1).

some people don't like how state schools are run (various different factors).

they might choose to take a chance on a free school - no one is forcing them to, and if they are wise they will ask a LOT of questions about expectations, ethos, curriculum, etc.

other people think 'what a load of nonsense, the local school is just fine' and so apply there.

everyone is happy.

I really don't get the unease, or cynicism.

even if the schools manage to turn a nice little profit - well good on them (as long as all educational criteria have been met, and they aren't feeding the children dry crusts and plain water, obv).

dd1 went to a school with 3 pupils. it was exactly what she needed, at that point in her life. I know plenty of people who thought we were bonkers, but then I would have thought them bonkers if they, in our position, had not done what we did.

takes all sorts, doesn't it?

Fayrazzled · 03/04/2012 16:25

That Future Schools Trust website totally depresses me. Quote,

"We have developed a unique model of using business intelligence systems to improve outcomes for children. We continue to develop dynamic systems for understanding and measuring performance of students in order to enable them to achieve academic success and to develop social competency."

It's like something out of 1984.

ConfusedGovernor · 03/04/2012 16:33

Fine, so don't send your kids there.

It's not a school I'd send my kids to. But that doesn't mean there's anything wrong with it.....

(I think the clue is in the name - 'tiger school' as in 'battle hymn of the tiger mother')

prh47bridge · 03/04/2012 16:34

Stripped of the jargon, they are saying they are doing everything they can to ensure their students are both academically and socially successful. Anything wrong with that?

Free schools are not unmonitored. They are subject to Ofsted inspections and various other controls.

Original poster
seeker · 03/04/2012 17:16

I just think we have q collective responsibility for the mation"s children. And the government has so much invested ( politically, not financially) in these schools that I don't think they will be allowed to fail, even if they should.

OP posts:
silverfrog · 03/04/2012 17:23

tbh, I don't think that - overall - we have done so well with educating the nation's children.

I am aware that my criteria are, out of necessity given dd1's needs, very different from most people's, but the ease with which children who do not fit into neat little educational boxes can be written off and largely ignored leaves me cold

imo, it is not necessarily possible to have schools which cater fully for every child's needs. and so the opportunity for people to set up (more easily) schools which do offer what their/a section of children need is a welcome one.