Busting a gut to pay private school fees for badly behaved daughter...

[mulranno]

I have 4 children. we both work full time really long hours to pay private school fees for daughter who needs learning support. However her behaviour at home is so bad that I resent making so many sacrifices to pay her fees. The other children miss out on our time as we are working so hard. Is it wrong for me to swap to state because I don't think that she deserves it?

State might do a lot better at meeting her needs.

Do your other children go to private schools too? Why is she badly behaved and what does she need support with? Is there something underlying all this?

Hi Mulranno,
How old is she? Is there any thing else?
I probably will stop paying private school fees, unless there is something else there why she is going to private school. Is she the only one that goes to Private school or are your other DC in private as well?
But I would not just stop paying and that's it. There may be a reason why she is behaving so badly at home. Does she behave at school?
Sorry for all the questions, but sometimes it might not be as easy as stopping fees.

If she needs learning support, is the behaviour linked to a learning difficulty, eg autism or adhd? Is she being bullied at school and then acting up at home because she's unhappy? How old is she, could it be hormone related? What strategies do you have in place to manage dc behaviour?

Sorry for the barrage of questions, but it's impossible to advise without a bit more background. Behaviour is a form of communication, so you won't change it until you know why it's happening iyswim

Plan was to pay for all at middle prep yr3-6 olest two have now gone on to grammer, youngest still at state infant but we are now unlikely to be able to afford for her to go to private middle due to long term cost with number 3. Tricky daughter is 10, has always been very difficult with her family - aggressive, unreasonable, tempermental etc but is timid, perfect, charming etc at school and with friends and family. She has a visual problem, short term memory problem, slow processing, literacy problem and is functioning at age 8-9 - so although often overwhelmed by school not miles behind. Just thinking would she benefit from me being around to take her to school, support her at home, create a more secure environment than what she gets from being at private school which requires me to work long and stressful hours....

Would agree with your secodn post , it isn't because she doesn't deserve it more that what the current school is offering isn't benefitting her overall.

I think you know thw answer to this, having more time with her mum will benefit her more in the long run because working long hours is clearly stressing you out and youre other children WILL resent her.
She does seem to have some genuine needs but private doesnt necessarily mean better...it depends on a lot of things. Just because you pay them to have her doesnt mean they then pay extra for more specialised and attentive staff to work with her.AND if she is not a problem at school they will just treat her like anyone else and unlike alot of state schools, support will not extend into the home and thats what you need by the sounds of it.

Ah, OK. Removing her from school as a "punishment" for her behaviour isn't going to achieve anything. Sending her to a local school which happens to be free and gives you the time to truly support her is an excellent idea.

Are the private school really supporting her as well as you think? Just because you're paying doesn't mean it's the right place for her. Carrots are carrots whether they come from the Waitrose 10 miles away or the Asda up the road. Maybe sending your daughter to the Waitrose school isn't right for her, because (to overextended the analogy) she needs to get the carrots home for tonight's tea...

Thanks purple pidgin - can you elaborate? I am not getting the analogy? We did go to her private school last week for a meeting with her teacher and the sen team - and had kind of decided ahead that they were not delivering - but at the meeting were impressed and came away determined to keep her there. Although since I have had second thoughts, as we are having financial difficulties which for her to remain there requires us to sell up and down size considerably anyway and continue to work...trying to strike a balance for the family as a whole

Thanks purple pidgin - can you elaborate? I am not getting the analogy? We did go to her private school last week for a meeting with her teacher and the sen team - and had kind of decided ahead that they were not delivering - but at the meeting were impressed and came away determined to keep her there. Although since I have had second thoughts, as we are having financial difficulties which for her to remain there requires us to sell up and down size considerably anyway and continue to work...trying to strike a balance for the family as a whole

At the moment she's at a posh school, you're all making sacrifices to keep her there, and she's unhappy. In other words, you're making a huge effort (driving to posh waitrose/working to pay for private school) to get something (carrots/education) that's readily available cheaper and closer (Asda/state school)

I have a friend who's mum insisted on keeping both siblings at private school. Friend desperately wanted to go to the local comp, mum wouldn't hear of it yet would constantly throw the fees and how hard she worked in my friend's face. Result? Failed a levels, mh issues and significant (now repaired) damage to their relationship.

Obviously all schools are different and you can't generalise about either state or private.

But, based on the private school in which I work, I would ONLY struggle to pay the fees for a child with SEN. I adore the school and think it is great for any child but not if means a financial struggle. However, for a child with SEN, I think private school is worth making any amount of sacrifice for. We have had children with quite severe learning difficulties who leave without showing any outward sign of them - they are confident children who can lead and self adjust to their academic limitations. We regularly have children with special needs starring in school plays (and doing every bit as well as other children), becoming prefects or head boy /girl and holding any number of positions of responsibility/recognition. Plus they learn in a class of 18 max but usually only 10-12 for a lower set.

Only you know the circumstances for you daughter and the school she's at though.

If you did change to state school for your DD, would it then be impossible to change back again if things didn't work out well? My point is, this is not a "no going back/ burn your bridges" type of decision, or is it? Could you maybe try the cheaper alternative and see how things go. Also, to be strictly fair to your fourth child, he/she should get the chance to go to a fee-paying school when their turn comes round. That may be tricky as things stand at the moment. Maybe your DD needs to try another school to give her a boost?

This could go horribly wrong. You already see this dd (and she sees herself) as the naughty child in the family. If she is the only one you take out of the school (thus spending less money on her too) this is likely to absolutely confirm the picture you and she have painted of her and she will think that you think (with some justification) that she doesn't deserve the same things as your other children.

Why not spend less hours working and more time with your children?

What does this school offer your daughter that a state school couldn't fulfil?

Maybe taking her out of private school will benefit the whole family. DD will get to spend more time with you (better than any education I feel!), your other DCs will see you more, you become less stressed and less overworked. Of course, this also depends whether the state school can support your DD and if they have the same pastoral care. You can always put it to DD that you're taking her out because you want to spend more time with her rather than as a punishment. Maybe sit down with her and ask what she feels - she may surprise you!

I think you should take her out Mulranno.. I take it she's yr 6? in which case she's had the same amount of private ed as your older children.
IME private is not necessarily the best place for SEN, you may find your dd thrives in a state school, you'll be able to work less, therefore support more and your dd4 will have a chance at private ed as well.
It's a no brainer imo...
Also, you can always change your mind later you know and put her back into the private sector.

What is her behaviour like at school?

It is pretty normal for kids to be angels at school and demons at home!

Do you think it would be in her best interests to move her? It sounds like you are wanting to punish her.

My DS underachieves in his private school, and I have been tempted to pull him out. But then I remember that he would not get the level of pastoral care, and that is just unthinkable.

She is well behaved and "timid" at school - she just kicks off at home - constantly moaning (screaming) that the house is untidy, bullies her 2 of her 3 siblings and is just ridiculously demanding, challenging and controlling - so gets obsessive about wanting something and then nags and pesters until she grinds you down - to either get angry with her (me) or give in (her dad). I dont see that moving her to state as a punishment I dont want revenge and she wants to move to be closer to home - but I do have feelings of resentment that we work so hard for her fees and that the others miss out on our/my time - and our fourth on an opportunity to have a few years at private. As she is SEN I can justify that we pay more for her as she has different/greater needs. Her SEN teacher at her private school said she would be "lost" at state school due to her timid nature.

Sorry but the "timid" and "lost" comment are frequently made by teachers at private schools as reasons a child won't survive/thrive in state. I would take that with a pinch of salt. Have you seen the state school? Have you talked to teachers? What support can they give her?

You really need to seperate school and your daughters attitude to you at home. Have a long hard look at your family life and dynamics and for goodness sake don't take her out of private school because of her behaviour at home. What on earth does paying school fees have to do with that? Your daughter seems very messed up and in need of attention so making her seem even less worthy by not paying for the education she needs would just fuel these thoughts even more.

I would investigate the alternatives and make a decision based on facts not resentment. I think you have been seduced by the words of her current school where in reality they are not delivering what you want.

If she is "timid" at school I'd suggest she is anxious, finding it very stressful and not a environment in which to thrive. She can then take out the pent-up stress on you and her siblings in the relative safety of her own home. She and you may well fear the unknown of a new school but ultimately it may be a huige relief all round. Have her assessed so that you know what the underlying issue is and then ask every potential school how they might include and support her.

If you are paying for private school so she gets learning support, are you saying she doesn't deserve learning support because she's naughty at home?

Erm.... did you think this through?