Moving from state to private school - dilemma

[BonyM]

Having had sleepless nights over the past week or so, I thought it was time to get the advice of the wise mumsnetters!

We have two dds, 7 and 14, both very bright, both doing well in their respective state schools (which are among the better state schools in the area). We have the opportunity to send them to private school and have been to look around a local, all girls school which has an excellent reputation and fantastic results. It is the only school in Wales to score top marks in all areas of its most recent inspection. Our initial thought was to just send our eldest dd at this stage (moving the younger one to start year 7) but while we were there we looked at the junior school as well and thought it was just fantastic.

Dd1 will be starting GCSES in September and although she is doing well where she currently is, it is a huge school, large class sizes, and we don't think has such high expectations of the pupils as this private school does. Both girls went for a taster day last week - dd2 adored it and is desperate to go. Dd1 was less impressed, is resistant to moving away from her friends and worried that she won't make new ones.

We have the added complication of the fact that it is likely we will be moving out of her current school catchment within the next 2 years so if we move her to the private school this won't cause a problem when we do move (they bus in from all over the place).

I really don't know what to do. Dh is determined we move her and the private school is undoubtedly better - we feel sure she will excel if she goes there - but I am concerned that the move will make her unhappy which will then negatively impact on her work.

I don't want to start a debate about private vs state, as I know a lot depends on individual schools and children's personalities. I would however welcome comments from anyone who has been in a similar situation and also from any parents whose girls currently attend Howells.

I could really do with a good night's sleep...

I'm biased... my dd is in Reception there. I'd do it without hesitation. I have not heard a bad word from anyone about the school and can't think of anything myself that I am not happy with!
Not helpful, sorry, but thought I'd reply anyway to reassure you. I can see why your dd1 would be a little concerned about having to make new friends, but I am sure the school would try very hard to make her welcome and the pastoral care is second to none.

PS. Come to think of it, my dd mentioned a new girl having a trial day last week... that may have been your dd2

If your elder daughter doesn't want to move at the moment I would discuss the pros and cons with her in detail and if she still doesn't want to move I would leave her at her current school and top up with tutoring if you don't feel that she is meeting her potential. I would then give her the option to move for the sixth form when she may feel differently. I actually think that moving at 14 can be more disruptive socially than the benefits gained academically.

I would still move your younger one if she is happy to go. It may be that her sister changes her mind hence the offer to go for sixth form.

What maybe said...

Thank you Babygiraffes - that is reasssuring. I think that generally, primary school age children tend to be more welcoming than teenagers to anyone new, hence the differing impressions my two girls came away with.

Maybe - it's not straightforward. DD1 is achieving extremely well at the moment - for example she is second in maths for her whole year (over 300 pupils) so as far as her school is concerned, she is the last person who needs additional tutoring. So maybe we are slightly bonkers to even consider moving her. However we can't help feeling that with her ability she could really excel if she moved to a school with generally higher standards, a better academic record and of course, much smaller classes.

We had already discussed previously the option of moving there for 6th form which she was open to, however our possible house move has prompted us to look at it now. If both girls moved there then it would make life a lot easier if I could do a school run to one site, or even let them go on the school but together.

We have arranged to go back again on Thursday to see if we can address the issues that DD1 had when she visited last week.

...school bus...

I moved primary age DSs from state to private. The difference for Ds1 in particular with smaller classes, different expectations and just the fact that the rowdy kids are not at the private school is really quite noticeable in the standard he is managing to achieve now. Not sure if this helps you or not...

Will there be many children moving into and out of your two relevant schools at the start of sixth form? Only one or two people started my school in sixth form and I think they found it hard going to break into established friendship groups. Is leaving it till then just delaying the issue?

I was prompted to respond to this not as a parent but because I was once a 14 yo who moved schools, in the middle of my GCSE's. It was due to a house move from North to South and not to go to a better school. Ironically I was at an excellent state school oop North and the new school was dreadful, I only passed my GCSEs by remebering what I had been taught in my first year and answering different q's to my fellow pupils!

Re-reading my diaries at the time it is full of references to my hated parents ruining my life etc. in true dramatic teen fashion and socially it was awkward, I was teased and took a while to settle. I did make friends in the end - but only at 6th form college did I really establish myself as everyone was new there iyswim? I hated the school and still feel it was the wrong time for me to move. By 14 most friendship groups are pretty established. Do not discount the feelings of your daughter about this as she will be the one managing a new school life with children established in the private school system this - for her - could outweigh the benefits.

I am not saying don't consider it but I do advise caution and be understanding.

bother! remembering

Moving at 14 can be really tough, especially for girls. I saw one child I know go from super-confident to truly unhappy in one term after moving at 13 into a school where most started at
11. Try and address her issues by all means, but definitely take them seriously - she probably sees a lot of social dynamics which are invisible to us mere parents.

We moved dd at 14 so between yr9 and yr10 as we were moving from the SE to the SW. She settled very happily and made more friends in her first few weeks than in the whole time she had been at her previous school.

I think to some extent it depends on your child's attitude as dd wanted to move as she had been having some problems but it might reassure you to know that it can work.

BonyM, what issues did DD1 have when she visited?

pickled - various issues: she said the girls weren't overly friendly (I said they didn't know if they would ever see her again so fairly understandable), said the maths she did was too easy (they put her in the lower set so as not to scare her off); some of them just wanted to chat rather than work (happens in all schools) and a couple of the girls seemed a bit bitchy (again, you get that anywhere). Also, in one lesson a teacher told a girl to leave the classroom as she had been chatting. The girl didn't move and the teacher didn't pursue it which dd1 found a bit odd.

larry - thanks, that is reassuring. I actually moved myself at this age, from all girls grammar to mixed comprehensive, due to a house move, and I coped fine, made some good friends that I still have today.

stealth and bigmouth - you make some good points and we have thought about all this. I guess it's impossible to say how things will pan out though.

I did wonder whether we should move her after Easter and then if she is really unhappy and doesn't settle we have the option of moving her back to her old school to start GSCEs in September. Dh thinks this isn't a good idea though as if she has the thought that it might not be permanent she may not make such an effort to fit in.

I know the school you're thinking of. My dd goes to the school on the other side of the fields. Several of her classmates have sisters in the girls' school and they are full of praise for it. So, solely from the point of view of "is this school good" then I would recommend it. However (and this is a big however) teenagers already have their friendship groups established and your dd will face a struggle fitting in. The struggle may last 10 minutes, 10 days, or forever....it all depends on when (and if) she finds someone she clicks with.

As for the bitchy comment....I studied in an all-girls private school, and I found the atmosphere very very bitchy. It is just the nature of having an overload of oestrogen I'm afraid. I formed a friendship-group of about 6 girls who were similar to me, and we avoided all the bitchiness by immersing ourselves in what we loved (hockey and the library ). It will obviously be harder for a new girl to find that group of girls who are similar to her, and will include her. She will find them though...it will just take time.

It is a hard decision to make and I don't envy you having to make it.

Thanks Nan - when we go back tomorrow for a visit they are going to arrange for her to chat to some girls who have similar interests (art, music) in the hope that she can find common ground with some of them.

Out of interest, why did you decide to send your dd to the other school? We know people who have dcs there and are happy with it but wondered if it were a bit boy-heavy and maybe more emphasis on religion than we would like (we are not religious).

I have 2 dds, so loads of people ask me why I chose the other school. Frankly, I studied in an all-girls school, and after the age of 12, it was hell on earth. For me at least. I was studious, bookish, with no interest in fashion and a passing interest in boys. As a result, I was consigned to the lowest order in the classroom. The bullying was hellish, and was so innocuous that the teachers were not even aware of it. A look here, a smirk there...it can affect your self-esteem without anyone having to say a word . A classroom full of girls, without any boys to temper them, can be very very very erm, hard to deal with.

My dds are also similar to me...bookish and quiet. I did not want them to suffer as I did. Not saying that it is a foregone conclusion that they will...but I'd rather avoid even the possibility if I can.

Besides, once they've finished schooling, they have to live and work in a world that is dominated by men. It is best they learn to deal with them while young. My family is female-heavy and they have no male influences other than their dad. I didn't want them to be completely unaware of how to deal with males till they become 16 (the worst age to encounter boys for the first time, imo!)

So.....I chose the co-ed school because of my issues, nothing more concrete than that

I love her school. It is not particularly boy-heavy in her year group. And in the senior school, the gender balance generally works out to 40-60 girls-to-boys with the new pupils coming in.
And I don't think they are very religious...yet (dd is only in infants). They do have a lot of emphasis on choirs and doing events for the church, but there isn't any heavy-handed religious preaching. Besides I love love love the Cathedral, and I love being able to attend events in it

ooo...that turned into an essay, didn't it? Sorry!

FWIW the school I was referring to was Monmouth - parents pulled the child out after 1.5 terms, moved her to a much less well known (and co-ed) day school closer to home, and she quickly returned to her confident self. I think coming from a small co-ed prep school into a large all-girls environment with all the cliques already established was just too much - she is not bitchy or devious by nature and just couldn't cope.

What are your older ones predicted GCSE grades?

I moved from a comprehensive to a girls' school at 15 and it was the making of me. It really depends on the person and also on the year group whether it is a good fit. I wouldn't worry about the girls only bit because 6th form is co-ed anyway. OP, good luck with your visit tomorrow

Nan - sounds as though you made the right decision for your girls. I don't think DD1 would have the same problems as you had - in fact she came away saying the girls she encountered were a bit immature and, being very into fashion (she is arty and would like to work in fashion eventually), couldn't believe that none of them knew what an lbd was (it was in a physics question for some reason)!

The not mixing with boys thing doesn't worry me. Most of my friends have boys and we socialise with them a lot so they won't be an alien species! Also the school (as Society says) takes boys at 6th form.

Also, boys (children) are very different from adult men so the argument that they will have to mix with them when they leave school doesn't totally hang together for me.

Seeker - no idea, she's not starting until September but she is in top sets for those subjects currently streamed (in fact in the top few in her class for every subject).

Society - that's good to hear, thank you.

I would go for it, send them both to the private. Although your older daughter is nervous about it now, she will settle in quickly and after a week or two i'm sure she will love it, as you mentioned she will excel there and i'm sure being in an all girl's school without the distractions would really increase her motivation etc.

Well, if she's in the top few, and it's a decent school, she's heading for As and A*s- you can't do excel more than that. And if she's got a good and happy friendship group where she is,she could do much worse if she moves. It's INCREDIBLY hard to break into established groups in a new school at this age- and she'll be trying to do it at a time when she needs to be focussing on work.

Move the younger one if you want to- but leave the 14 year old with her friends at least until after GCSEs.

There is more to excelling than GCSE grades, but it won't happen if she's not happy. Dd moved coed to girls only between years 9 and 10 and it worked well for her, but she wanted to move and that may be key.

The question I would be asking is if she stays in her existing school and you move house what happens? If it's just inconvenient then fair enough, but if she would have to change school at that point it would be far better to move now. Moving once GCSEs are started is fraught with difficulties.