Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Education

Join the discussion on our Education forum.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

Promotion of homosexuality in schools

205 replies

tectime · 04/03/2012 10:24

Hi

I have children in junior school, and one is due to undertake a sex education class (too young in my opinion), but I am concerned if the subject of homosexualty is broached. Is this broached in senior schools, or does it happen in junior schools too.

OP posts:
Clary · 07/03/2012 23:21

mummie I am amazed at your posts - do you know any 10yos? Not being funny but if your DC are this kind of age I'd be astnished. Many of the ones I know spend a lot of time thinking about relationships. Which includes friendships and the whole range of human contact tbh.

fivecandles · 07/03/2012 23:24

But how on earth can you explain what is happening to their bodies outside of the context of human relationships?? Sex and puberty is not just about mechanics and I think it would be deeply unhelpful to deal with the mechanics as completely separate from feelings. I'm just wondering how that discussion would go. Erections for example. How would you explain those?

If you are beginning puberty your body is telling you that you are capable of having a sexual relationship. Encouraging students NOT to embark on one is one reason why you should talk about it and in fact all the research indicates that the more open a society is about sex the LESS likely it is for kids to have underage sex and teenage pregnancies.

ClothesOfSand · 07/03/2012 23:24

How can children be too young to know about relationships, and how can a relationship be an adult concern? Relationships are the most important thing in life, and the relationship between them and their primary carer is initially the only thing in the whole world that a baby knows.

Schools wouldn't have to teach children that some children live with two Daddies and some children live with their mum and their grandmother and so on if parents actually did their job and taught children basic things before sending them off to school at 4. I have no idea why so many parents don't think they have any responsibility towards teaching children basic things that should not be the responsibility of the school, but while some parents are irresponsible, schools will continue to parent children. Otherwise some people's children would only learn about relationships from Disney films.

Mummle · 07/03/2012 23:29

Clary-friendships, yes. Innocent flirting at ten, yes. Ten year olds wanting physical contact - definitely not. Not unless they are a bit wayward and/or foolishly emulating an older sibling (which they should not be doing.) Most ten year olds I know would recoil at the thought of kissing another boy or girl; they don't want hetero/homosexual relations.

fivecandles · 07/03/2012 23:34

I don't think you know much about 10 year olds Mummle.

And I'm still interested to know how you would explain erections.

ClothesOfSand · 07/03/2012 23:35

But teaching young children about homosexuality and heterosexuality isn't about preparing them for relationships they may enter into and it certainly isn't about talking about sexual acts between children; it is about teaching them about family life, and almost all children live in families.

ClothesOfSand · 07/03/2012 23:38

I do have a 10 year old. We live in a sheltered, rural area but she would have to live in a bubble to not know about homophobia. She knows that teenagers not much older than herself commit suicide and homophobia contributes to that. Children do need to talk to adults about some quite serious issues, because they will have an impact on children they know, and sometimes with tragic consequences.

Mummle · 07/03/2012 23:41

Well, Fivecandles, I would be curious to know how you would explain an erection to a 9 or 10 year old too, lol. Seriously, though, I have repeatedly said that when and if children ask questions, by all means, answer them honestly, but please do not overload them with more than they have asked.

fivecandles · 07/03/2012 23:45

I'd explain erections honestly. But it's really not possible to discuss them without talking about sexual feelings and attractions. Having sexual feelings is perfectly normal. Talking about them with chidlren is not the same as encouraging them to act on them in fact the opposite. As I've said the more open you are the more likely children are to grow up and have healthy attitudes and relationships and the LESS likely they are to have underage sex and pregnancies.

Mummle · 07/03/2012 23:50

Just noticed the time - got to get some sleep - thanks for the lively debate, good night, all.

Clary · 07/03/2012 23:51

mummie I don't think anyone advocating talking to 10ys about relationships is suggesting that 10yos should be having close physical relationships with the opposite sex!!!

Of course I don't think my DD's mates should be snogging boys, but the fact that they are playing about with it, albeit very innocently, just underlines for me the importance of havign discussions about relationships and how we get on with people and some of the many issues in that area.

I don't understand what you are saying at all

cakeismysaviour · 08/03/2012 00:31

I completely understand the concerns expressed by the OP and at least one other poster, if they discuss homosexuality in junior schools we will see some very worrying things happening as a direct result of this. There will be rampant outbreaks of homosexuality throughout the school, your children will go into school as ordinary children and then emerge following their sex ed lesson as camp as a row of pink sparkly tents.

I think its time to take a stand about this, write to the school governors, the LEA, your MP, the Prime Minister and Elton John. Let them know that this is unacceptable.

In the meantime, keep an eye out for signs of your DSs using eye make-up and your DDs shaving their heads........

Devora · 08/03/2012 00:34

Mummie - here's one good reason: because your kids may be at school with my kids, and they will be FASCINATED that she has two mummies! And because my eldest (6) often feels overloaded by others' curiosity and it would be really, really nice if her school didn't pretend her family didn't exist when it was discussing families and relationships.

As for the ins and outs - no primary school child is taught the MECHANICS of gay sex, so far as I'm aware. And of course it's important to be age appropriate. But I really, really resent this idea that my (normal, healthy, happy) family set-up is some kind of adult content that will 'bewilder' and 'overload' young minds, that will 'stop kids from being kids'.

Plus: I really don't think you can catch gay.

PigletJohn · 08/03/2012 00:47

Mummie - and what if your kids are gay?

EmpressOfTheSevenOceans · 08/03/2012 02:17

Mummie, you say you'd answer your DCs' questions. Does that mean that if they came home & asked "Why has Empress's DC (or Devora's or Gay40's) got 2 mummies?" you'd simply explain that some families do & that's fine?

Pusheed · 08/03/2012 09:02

OP - Why the concern?

My sister's grown up son is gay. At about 9, DS asked if x was gay? I said yes. Does he have a boyfriend? Yes. DS then proceeded to ask the same questions a child would ask about a girlfriend i.e. is he nice? How did they meet? Are they in love?

Children accept homosexuality as being 'normal' unless adults choose to make it not normal to the child. DS's school didnt cover homosexuality in its lesson but I would have been ok if they had.

EmpressOfTheSevenOceans · 08/03/2012 11:55

When DD was at nursery they covered it, very simply, just to explain why she had two mummies & no daddy. I don't THINK any of the DCs were traumatised, or at least the ones we're still in touch with seem ok. From the outside.

LadyClariceCannockMonty · 08/03/2012 12:02

at 'the ins and outs of heterosexuality and homosexuality.'

I don't have children, but boy am I glad to hear about the sensible and sensitive attitude of most posters on this thread. Of course kids, even very young ones, are aware that people relate to each other and of concepts like love and 'special friends'.

I'm quite perturbed at some people equating the discussion of human relationships with sexualisation of children. Seems quite prurient to me.

JugglingWithTangentialOranges · 08/03/2012 12:16

Just to say how I responded when working in a school to some children saying to other children "Ergh, you're gay !" at playtime ...

I just said "You can't say to someone "You're gay" that's something they'd have to tell you about themselves" ... "Oh, OK Miss" child runs off, calls to friend "Are you gay ?"

Progress ? Grin

Also said I have friends who are gay, I think they were surprised by this !

Don't know whether my response was adequate but hopefully it's along the right lines ?

allyfe · 08/03/2012 13:15

I just wanted to thank Mummie and the other posters for this thread. Once Mummie got involved and was able to eloquently express her differing views, it resulted in some really interesting debate. My children are still very small, 3 and 16 months. But my daughter is facinated/obsessed by the notions of families. Everything is turned into a family. She also worries about many of the children in her books if they don't have mummies. She wants to know where their mummies are.

I am not sure who posted it, but this thread has got me thinking about how I can introduce to her the notion of familes with two mummies, or two daddies. Doing this, for me, isn't about sex education. It is about understanding from the beginning that there are ways that people live which aren't the same as her life, and those are just as normal as what is normal for her.

Personally, even if it is labelled sex education, my opinion is that for most of junior school the point of it is broadening childrens understanding of how the world works, and so that even if it is something that they have not personally come into contact with, they can understand how it works and accept it.

I think that the aim of introducing children to experiences and situations beyond their own experience at a very early age is so that they understand that all variations on families and relationships are fine.

With regards to 10 year olds, I don't think that all 10 year olds will be ready for sex education, but I'm sure there are some that are. Those that aren't may be even more worried by the uninformed information of those that are, than by some sensitively given fact. So I'd say that 10 isn't too young. For explaining some of the differences in relationship types, I'd say it is too old.

StarlightDicKenzie · 08/03/2012 13:31

Heck, I don't even know the MECHANICS of gay sex!

Doesn't mean I want my children to not know that being gay is valid and normal.

PigletJohn · 08/03/2012 13:55

surely not all mechanics have gay sex?

ClothesOfSand · 08/03/2012 15:11

Allyfe, you might find this book age appropriate:

www.amazon.co.uk/Family-Book-Todd-Parr/dp/0316070408/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1331219367&sr=8-1

RabidEchidna · 08/03/2012 15:16

So by teaching homosexuality do you mean your child will have to watch the wizard of Oz and learn the words to almost every show tune?

Gay40 · 08/03/2012 16:02

I think children are just interested in families and how everyone fits together.

I'm sure most of DD's friends (and indeed DD herself) have no idea what lesbians do in the bedroom, and nor should they. The conversations we've had have all been around what makes a family and extended family. For example, when she asked if men could marry men, we said yes: Uncle X loved Uncle Y very much and they wanted to get married so they did. Education is not about describing what Uncle X and Y did in bed. It was about loving people and being in a recognised couple.