a number of Q's about private schools

[tryingtobemarypoppins2]

Sorry, carrying on from my 2 threads

1. How do you know you can really afford it? How much for prep level, do you need to have as a back up??

1. Would you pay for prep if you thought you may not be able to pay for secondary?

3.Are you more likely to get an award for secondary if you have been to a prep?

Any other thoughts?

3 No. Most awards nowadays for secondary are based on need. There are a few places with academic scholarships which you might be more likely to get if you have been to prep, but they tend to be worth fairly nominal amounts.

As for affordability, can you at least afford secondary now at their current fee levels? Because unless your wages increase stratospherically then fees have tended recently to increase faster than fees. (But can anyone else help with fees, or will one parent have returned to full time work by secondary?)

Agree with mt . We try to have a year's worth in hand but value of that ever decreases as fees rise.There are still some scholarships but these are becoming fewer, more competitive and specialised subject based (ie Art, Music, Drama). Kids are tutored for the exams in both sectors. Unless specified otherwise academic awards are equally open to prep and state pupils, although an endowment may decree it is for one rather other. Increasingly funds are going towards means tested bursaries. Unless you live in a grammar area, no to 2.

Agree with other posters - private school is a huge investment and if you are serious then I'd wait till secondary school if you can't afford both - many schools have scholarships reserved for 'children from the state sector' or also bursaries for 'those who would otherwise not be able to consider an independent education' but as LIZS said they are generally heavily means tested - asking everything from how much is the equity on your house, how many of what car do you have and don't even think of going on any kind of holiday if you plan to have a bursary. We fall in that lovely category of being copmfortably off- not hard up enough to entertain being considered for a bursary but not nearly wealthy enough to afford private school fees. The inflation of fees is generally high and can go up each year however much they chooseso you need to plan for above inflation over the 7 years of secondary school.
I once sat and did the figures a few years back for all 3 of myDC at the prices then not allowing for inflation and it came to the price of a large house.- probably twice that if you include inflation. Then I understood why people bought expensive houses in good school areas as at the end you have your house.
Not to mention at the end of every term there is always an extras bill for all sorts of things- and there are plenty of opportunities for all sorts of wonderful trips all of which cost more money. And uniforms are also extensive and expensive.
Not trying to be down on it all - many people value a private education enough to go without a lot of things - but you really need to go into it with your eyes open and a good plan - you don't want to end up having to pull DC out half way through and put back in the state sector - might be worth considering it just for 6th form maybe - although with current attitudes my DH reckons it will be harder to get into university from the independent sector in future with positive discrimination for state sector pupils.
I wouldn't recommend primary unless you can really afford it - TBH there's nothing extra they'll get from the private sector that you can't do at home yourself to help your DCs - save the monsy and take them on holidays to interesting places instead.
Sorry one more thing to consider - most pepole in the private sector have loads of money and can afford exotic holidays as well as fees - consider also the impact on your DC of feeling like the 'poor' one all the time - there is the whole social thing to weigh up too.

1. I don't know if its just about what you can afford, its about what else you'd rather be spending your money on. Most people on our salaries would probably say they can't afford it.

1. We may not be able to pay for secondary, depends on lots of things between now and then. The difference for us is that we have a state secondary (our closest) which we would be happy for our dd to attend, we didn't have a state primary which we were happy with.

1. No idea, doubt it!

avoiding - just to put my view on a couple of your comments - my 3DS go to a very expensive prep school and we fly by the seat of our pants, month to month. We also moved in with my Mum to give us less overheads. We don't go on exotic holidays and we use the second hand uniform shop. The trips once a term are usually free, sometimes a £5 charge on top or they are allowed to take £3 spending money. My kids don't have expensive clothes or toys and certainly don't feel left out. Infact a good majority of the families are in our position - we are not unusual. The school are very good at helping out and allowing extensions when times are tough - but they don't tolerate it on a long term basis. For me/us, the pay off between having a big house and exotic holidays vs a top notch prep education was an easy decision to make. We may not be able to afford senior in which case they will hopefully go to the Grammar school. Regardless, I know that they have had the best start I can give them. Although I have never experienced a primary education, from what I have seen and heard I would be interested to know if they can get as much out of it with top up's from home. Not saying you can't, I just would like to see some 'evidence'. Of course, independent schools vary in success a great deal, as does one primary school to the next. Ultimately you need to find the 'best' school that fits your child, whether that be state or private.

How do you know if you can afford it?

Do a budget! How do you know if you can afford anything? How much contingency you have depends on your attitude to risk.

We would have around £700 (I looked at fees in final years) left a month after bills and all outgoings......but we are not great now and keeping to this.....money seems to disappear! And that's fees now, not in 3 or 4 years time.

£700 a month ? I pay more than that monthly for my DS3 who is only in Reception ... have you looked into the fees ??

conors I'm really surprised that you are paying more than £700/month for reception. Doesn't the school qualify for early years funding or childcare vouchers? We had both when ds was in reception so we only paid about £250/month. He is in yr 3 and we pay £975/month. Yr 4 is the same and yrs 5 and 6 are £1250/month.

I'm in two minds about paying for secondary school. I think it would depend what our options are at the time. I could afford it but I'd prefer not to.

1. No, not unless I knew that my child had a very good chance of gaining a place at a good state school.

3 This has not been my experience. My DD has been state educated throughout and has been offered an academic scholarship for 6th form at a well known public school.

Apologies, it's DS2, Yr1. DS3, Reception is a little less (but not much) we don't qualify for early years anymore ...

DS would only get Early years funding for the first term in Reception. So after this the fee would be £500 per month, £600 for years 1 and 2.

£700 is how much we would have left over after all home bills and fees once wee have paid for fees later on, when the boys are in Year 6 and 4 as an example.

It is clear we cant afford secondary at 2k alone for fees, add on transport and extras, we just couldn't afford it. So should we go for prep?? Some private education is better than none at all???

Depends on what you are aiming for and what your state provision is like. For example the nursery section of ds's school is hugely popular because the state nursery provision isn't very good. However the primary schools are good so lots move from private nursery to state school. Others stay in private school and some move in at yr 3. Main reason is to get into grammar. Our prep finishes at 11. Most go on to the senior private school, some go to grammar, some go to other private schools and some transfer to preps that go to 13.

and if you knew you were aiming for outstanding church state secondary??

I'd look at the criteria for getting a place - is it academic or based on geography, which schools do its pupils come from etc.

The criteria is church attendance and proximity to the school. A small number come from the local preps but most from middle class families who 'discover' god 2 years before the start of secondary ;)
A prep school would give him a great start.....just concerned about the cost of the final years.....gosh not easy all this is it!

Costing this is not easy.

1. You need to get a spreadsheet. Fill in all the years, and the current costs for a local prep. Find a typical secondary near you too, and do the same for them.

Then add 6% to year 1. And two lots of 6% to year 3, etc. all the way up to the end of schooling. Total it up for end prep and end of the lot.

Pour a large G&T and drink it to stop yourself fainting.

Faint anyway.

Phone financial advisors who can help not just the budgeting but also help you pay it tax-efficiently. Why lose 20-40% of your paying ability if you don't have to? And they can also get you a bigger pension while they're at it...

2. No. We thought there might be bullying. I optimistically hope someone will say there isn't!

3. Perhaps yes if it's an academic award, though these are usually just for the kudos these days, rather than a good slice off costs, and tend to be something like 10% off the fees at best. So assume no financial awards.

1. You need to carefully work out your budget. Only then will you know whether you can afford it. Look at the fees now and then budget in at least 7% rise a year (it's probably less than this but it's best not to cut things too fine). DH and I are self employed so budgeting was a bit harder as our income is not regular as a salary. We also have Cash ISAs that we can dip into but we haven't had to yet. And make sure you have life insurance so there's money to pay the school fees if one of you dies and your income halves!

1. We picked Prep because all our local primaries were dire (that's what comes of buying a nice house in a bad area). I don't think i worried about being able to pay for secondary at that time as i knew we wouldn't be living there that long. There's a few kids from my DCs school who have gone on to state secondary school and they all seem to have settled in well so i don't see any problem with it.

1. I guess children from prep are at a slight advantage when it comes to awards as they are generally pushed harder but a bright kid from a state school would probably stand a good chance too. At my DCs school nearly half the Y6 kids have been offered scholarships though some have opted to go to other schools.

At DD's prep school there was great emphasis on music, sport and art - as well as the academic stuff - which meant that when they moved to secondary most of them were offered scholarships in one (or more) of these fields. Consequently DD's secondary fees are much less than we were paying in primary years. Just a thought...

You really need to do your sums. It usually costs a lot. Amd always seem to cost more than you think.

First look at the basic fees. Then factor in an increase each year in line with inflation (ish). Factor in also that it will probably inhcrease quite significantly at 7+. Check with the school and ask for specifics.

Then work out what is actually included. Lunches? Trips? Some schools are excellent. DS's school pretty much includes everyhting. DD's is like Porsche - there's nowt thrown in for free, not even the mats!

Personally, we like to have a cushion of money out aside. One full years fees and extras minimum. But many families pay out of income. Certainly, some use the payment plans (but beware the interest rates are shocking).

Would I pay for prep if I couldn't afford secondary? I don't know is the honest naswer to that one. Certainly my DC got a huge amount from prep school that I value tremendously. However, if money were very tight, I don't know.

It may also be hard for a child who has been at a private school and all their freidns from there are going on to private schools but you want to move them to a state school after (however good it might be). Might it be a bit unfair to raise the child's expectations and the type of schooling tghey are in only to change that for the worse later?

Xenia has a point, but it depends on the local circumstances, a lot of boys locally come out of local Preps to go to DCs comp. I believe it's even more common in grammar school areas.

As a teacher I have seen what goes on in some state schools (not all, some are excellent) so private education is very appealing. However we would not be able to afford it, so am hoping DD is clever and will pass the 11+ as we live near a very good state grammar school. Aa far as primary education goes we will have to send her to a state one but with extra help at home I am sure (I hope...) she will be OK. Good luck with your decision OP. If I had the money I would send DD to a prep school and a private secondary school, but if you have to do one or the other I suggest sending your DC to a state primary and a private secondary.

OP, you've started sooooo many threads about this!