a number of Q's about private schools

[tryingtobemarypoppins2]

Sorry, carrying on from my 2 threads

1. How do you know you can really afford it? How much for prep level, do you need to have as a back up??

1. Would you pay for prep if you thought you may not be able to pay for secondary?

3.Are you more likely to get an award for secondary if you have been to a prep?

Any other thoughts?

I wouldn't if I were you
It doesn't sound like you can afford it

As a teacher who has taught both in private and state schools, I'd say that unless you can easily afford it- then don't. You would be better off supplementing a state school with private tutoring if needed. However it does depend on the state schools in your area- if they are terrible, then maybe private it has to be if you can afford it.

Most sec schools- private- cost around £20K a year. Multiply that by 7 years.
so to afford £20K a year you need to be earning £40K on top of the income for your essential outgoings.

To aford £20K a year remember that you would be taxed- so your would need £40K gross to have £20K left over for school fees for 1 child.

£40k to give a net income of £20k? Really? Maths isn't my strong point but that would mean tax+NI = 50%!

It depends which tranche of your income you're setting aside for fees doesn't it?

MollieO- yes that is what I intended. If you are going to afford £20K a year for school fees, you would need £40K-ish before tax, and UNLESS you earn £40K on the button, it's likely that you will earn a bit more- and higher tax rate applies at £43K. Add on NI and it's 50% tax.

I earn more than that and my average tax+NI is 28% over all my income. PAYE so no funny accountant business either (the wealthiest person I know is a basic rate taxpayer).

Most private schools will have a detailed list of fees showing the increases from pre prep, to juniors etc. Some private schools are not that expensive compared to others. We have a number of them in our local area, YR ranges from £1882 per term to well over £2000. Seniors are £2500 to nearly £4000.

I worked out whether we can afford it based on how much it would cost for the full school life (4-16) plus music lessons and school dinners. I then added inflation (the school we chose has 2-4% increases so I used 4% as a worst case). I then did a budget to show our income and normal expenditure including the school fees monthly. This showed us any shortfall and what savings we would need to top up at all. (I am an accountant so makes life easier when worknig this stuff out I guess).

We made a decision that we had to be 100% sure we could afford it and also be able give the boys a nice life outside of school as we believe it is just as important to have good life experiences (hols, after school clubs such as judo, tennis, swimming) as well as education (well maybe not AS important but still very important). My DS2 has just started at the pre-school at the private school and starts YR in September, DS1 is starting next September for Juniors as we were not able to commit financially to him starting YR at the time as I hadn't gone back to work after maternity leave/career break.

We really did not want to put them in if we could not keep them in until they left school at 16 so if we thought that would been the case they would have gone to state primary and then private secondary as we have no grammar schools.

You are only taxed at 40% on the part over the £35k threshhold so you would never lose 50% in tax and NI - what lovelyteacher is saying is essentially right, £40k only equates to less than £29k a year take-home, less if you pay a pension, you are left with around £2400 per month and school fees for just ONE child will be around £600-800 per month at infant level, probably around £1000 at seniors.

No idea or not if your sums add up, but at DC's school there are a handful who leave every year to go to an exceptional state grammar close by and it's considered a perfectly normal thing to do (and from what I see they keep friends with former classmates).

Some other children leave at various points before this because parents run out of money. Has happened to two of DS's close friends. Other people have left and gone to state school for non-financial reasons (eg special needs). Again, seems to have worked out ok in all cases - general impression I've got from them is that the facilities cannot compare but that teaching itself is pretty similar. Shorter school days in state schools can be a bonus for some parents and a headache for others.

Given that all the kids leave at 13 anyway, I don't see it a huge issue to leave at 11 instead.

OP, have you got one DC? Are you likely to have more? I'm not being rude, but if you are likely to have more, then obviously the financial implications of a private education are going to be doubled.
We have three DC and knew that if we had stuck at two, we could have educated them both privately, however, three would be a stretch. We now have the older two in state primary and one pre-schooler. we are in a bit of a quandry at the moment about whether we can afford private secondary education (as I would like) or not. We will only do this if we can afford to send all of them privately.

OP I think you have to really look at the schools in your area.
Private does not always equal better.
It's a mistake to think it does, as is sendng your children so you can have the status of using private education. If you have good state schools in your area then you;d be silly to use those.

Both my DCs- now adults- went to ordinary single sex sec schools and both ended up at Russell Group unis, with good degrees in academic subjects.

In comparison, some privately educated peers of theirs did not do so well.

You also need to know what will suit your child best. If they are not academic the best school in the world will not turn them out with A* grades. Schools can only work with the raw material they have and some parents think private education auatomatically means better grades. sometimes it does for children who are average or just below- they have extra attention and smaller classes.

But it's not a given that they will come out with better A levels or a better uni offer.

You need to start with your child and decide what is best for them- not a preconceived idea that one kind of school is better than another.

be silly not to use those.

Our privatge schools (outer Lodon) are more like £10k - £13k than £20k),. Just as well I live here. It sounds like fees are nearly double elsewhere although I would be surprised.

Habs girls where one of my girls went - £11,900 or something for secondary, one of the top 20 schools in the cuontry fo A level results often
www.habsgirls.org.uk/general.php?area=admissions&page_id=2
North London Collegiate - other daughter's often in top 3 of all schools for A level results not that much more

In our area private primary schools are a waste of money in my opinion. One of my kids is in a privates secondary school but joined at S1, entrance was largely on performance in the entrance exam, bursaries were dependant on performance in the entrance exam and parental income so thick poor kids and bright rich kids wouldn't get bursaries.
This is very school dependant though. 10k per year is the average up here (Scotland)

It's the unexpected that causes the problem if your paying by the skin of your teeth: the car breaks down, vets bills private dentists somehow you need to budget for these.

Thank you for your comments. Lots to consider!

There was a thread recently that was very interesting where the op had asked which was more worthwhile prep or secondary.

My ds1 currently goes to prep and ds2 has just got himself a scholarship to the same school. We couldn't afford secondary but decided a good grounding at prep level (up to age 13 after all) is better than nothing and who knows what will happen after.

We are glad we made the decision we did though as ds1 was being let down at state and is now thiving. The change has been a wonderful thing to see.

At what age did you move DS1 from state? I have been told that the school do other sibling discounts but only 5%, but no scholarships until Year 3. Did they award your second DS with a bursery?

We're going though the bursary process for ds2 at the mo. Ds1 already has a bursary. To be honest if ds2 hadn't got the scholarship we wouldn't have sent him as well.
Anyway... ds started in september and he is 9 this april.

My latest motto is, you don't know unless you try.

We hadn't really expected ds2 to get the scholarship which I feel a bit bad about, he had just aways been so outshone by his older brother. We knew he was bright but not to that extent.

Perhaps I'm not the best person to advise. It's all gone tits up and I'm feeling liek a shit parent