Gove 'to ban DCs taking any term time holiday'

[LittenTree]

here

Determined to alienate everyone, isn't he?!

First we see a massive push on academies, putting 'responsibility' for schools back directly to the schools (and allegedly the communities)- now he's telling HTs they can't be the judge of whether is reasonable to allow a DC off school to go on holiday...

In my opinion it should be totally within the remit of the HT to decide based on my DC's attendance and achievement. I strongly object to having my application treated the same as the truancy of an appallingly badly and irresponsibly parented DC from a suboptimal home.

As an aside, my mother was amusing about this. She sniffily said 'Well, I don't agree with DCs being taken out of school for holidays anyway' -conveniently overlooking how triumphant she's been the last couple of years at a) how much cheaper our holiday has been (we take her with us) and b) how lovely and quiet it is...

And where's the legislation preventing holiday providers from doubling the price the second the school hols begin??

What about funerals & other non-leisure absences? If HTs have no power to sanction authorised leave at all does that mean parents will be fined for taking their DCs to Grandad's funeral?

You might like to look at this long thread "In the News" over the weekend.

They should also simultaneously ban fare rises within all travel/ holiday/hotel companies/prices during school vacations a term breaks.
I gather they will also ban people from having weddings, birthdays, funerals and parties in term time.
That minister looks dumb enough to make my blood boil over.
Can MN invite him to a live chat here? Or pass the opinions in this thread on to the media? Or is this beyond MN remit?

I thought this Gov were all for parental choice, flexibility of schooling etc.?

I thought the ethos was all against being a nanny state. I don't really get it. Of course I am against it, all that will happen is that parents will lie and say children are sick...

We always take the odd day in the year, mainly because all of my family is overseas and flights never coincide with school holidays. So flights will go say friday to friday or monday to monday etc...Our HT has a general ban on these unless they are genuine exceptions and she has often allowed it as she knows how important seeing family is to the children and we try our best to fit it in theholidays but does not always work...

The price does not go up at holiday time it come down when the demand is not so great.
if you send your child to state school you are asking the government to educate then there way, you have said you dont want to do it.
if you are unhappy with the way government run schools, take your childen out of school, partition government to change things.

I think that is a simplistic view bebanjo. It is simply not realistic to take children out of school to petition government. Education is a right and if we can not afford private, then we have to go state.

Our government is an elected one, we are allowed to strongly disagree with proposals regarding education. Because we are a democracy these are OUR schools, not owned by the government. Therefore we are fully entitled to be pissed off and VOCAL at changes we abhor.

of course you need to voice your opinions, to the government, thats what i am saying, 200,000 people could protest on here and it will not make a dame difference, if you care tell them as can do something about it.
as for your other point it is a parents duty provide an education for there children, not the governments, and privet is not the only alternative to state school.

Do you home educate bebanjo ? Shall we just close all schools then, after all it is a parents responsibility to educate.

Shall we apply this logic elsewhere? Let's all take our vitamins and not get sick etc... Your view is far too simplistic.

Gove is wrong to suggest such changes.

I am not sure what the logic of the argument here is - and where is the evidence?

Is it that children improve educationally if they do not go on holiday in term time? So how does that work then , when independent schools have longer holidays and in y experience many get taken out even more often. As far as I am aware there is no cause and efect established between attendence and school achievement.

Is it that it improves discipline ( since the instigator of this is some behaviour and discipline expert apparently)? Again I point to independent schools. Or are children just to be forced to endure more bullying and disruption from the badly behaved and disruptive? Is that the education they are supposed to be getting?

Or is this just to meet some self set government target that children will attend school - with no other reasoning?

Or am I missing something in my reading?

beanutputter, why are you having a go at me, this is what the government wants, spend all your time and energy having a pop at the wrong people, i have not told you what to do , just pointed out the alternatives.

maybe if more parents made there feelings known in a more practical way, 30% pull there kids out of school maybe then the government would listen to what parents want.
have a pop at them.

Why don't we do what France does and stagger the school holidays so that everyone is not off at the same time? This already happens to some extent with Scotland which seems to break up/go back earlier than England.

bebanjo you are assuming that I haven't already voiced my concerns about this elsewhere. FWIW I don't think removing kids from school to protest against them being forced to attend is the answer.

The alternatives you point out don't actually solve this issue. Private education is not an option for many and neither is home schooling.

As others have said, this seems like a target driven exercise with little evidence to prove its worth. That is where we should be focussing. I don't believe we should be finding a solution to the impact of the proposals rather stopping this altogether.

This = them (sigh)

NON STORY
LEAKED DRAFT REPORT
KITE FLYING
Fines have been in place for years
Gove is just being a silly arse (again)

I'm normally suspicious of the gargantuan ego Katharine Birbalsingh, but I thought she gave quite a good perspective on this in her column in the Telegraph today (and no, I'm not a mouth-foaming Tory, but I do try to read a range of views). [[http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/9092612/At-my-free-school-the-end-of-term-will-be-too-good-to-miss.html Here]]

Isn't (at least part of) the point that it is very difficult for teachers to plan and teach properly if the class fluctuates in size and structure if children come and go? I rarely agree with Govey, and I'm not saying I = do on this, however I do think there's a point to say that holidays in term-time should be discouraged where possible. Yes independent schools have longer holidays, so this isn't about number of days attendance, it is about teachers knowing exactly what they're dealing with, being able to plan, and for all children in the class to have a stable learning environment?

I tend to agree though that a head teacher should be able to make a judgment about an individual circumstance. In the schools in my area though kids often come and go a lot due to 'holidays' - sometimes going for months at a time to see family overseas. I went to look around the primary school in September and the classes were half full because many hadn't yet returned from visits to family in India and Asia. I think at least in part, this sort of policy is aiming to prevent this sort of issue rather than the occasional day off because there are no flights to wherever on a Saturday.

She has a valid point about the end of term in most ( many) schools being fragmented. I wuld love to see how she plans to make the end of term " unmissable" though. Even when I was a lad (1960's boys and girls) end of term was still as it is today. We tended to have schools fairs and concerts in the last week which made it more focussed - but those times have gone I think. I would also mention that I went to a state school for much of my life and we too had much longer holidays than they do now. Maybe that was why end of term was better controlled ( just as it is in many independents).

But still I do not think there is any advantage in punishing families for this. Even in an independent school children will get early exeats to go home and be with families - no one worries.

I am constantly moving between the UK and Canada ( I am here in the UK now because I have to do my " resident" bit here as I do not have Canadian citizenship.). My DS comes with me when I am ready to go -although I home school at the moment in UK terms and in Canada, he is too young for school.

As a good teacher, I do not need to be certain of who is in class vis numbers etc. Thats silly. A good teacher is flexible and able to deal with most instances.

It seems to me this is just target hitting for target hitting sake.

Michael Gove's sledgehammer approach is ridiculous.

Of course headteachers should have discretion. Some people have families abroad or further afield within the UK and sometimes they need to see them. Weddings, funerals and illnesses don't always follow timetables, and if "home" is some distance it may take more than a weekend to sort out.

As for Birbalsingh, well, teachers deserve some term-time discretion too. Two of the teachers at our school, for example, were away for a while after the NZ earthquakes as their families needed them. That is, surely, as it should be too.

This thread has prompted me to look at the 1995 Act in which the "10 days" occurs.

It is specifically for the purpose of holidays (section 8, paras 3&4), so bereavement and illness certainly don't count. Altering just this two paragraphs - to remove the "10 days", but keep the 'exceptional circumstances' would cover other significant family events.

I suppose the underlying question is whether children learn more effectively in groups where attendance is generally good (some making up for illnesses) or in a group likely to have similar levels of sick absence to e worked round, plus a further two weeks holiday absence per child?

' I strongly object to having my application treated the same as the truancy of an appallingly badly and irresponsibly parented DC from a suboptimal home.'

I predict a big increase in flu , chickenpox and any other illness which requires at least a week's absence :-)