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year six child staying back a year

57 replies

frannyzooey · 02/02/2012 17:40

Any advice anyone about what to fall back on if my son's head refuses to let him repeat year 6? He is being assessed by the ed psych next week and I plan to give the head a letter beforehand listing why I feel he should repeat. The school is aware he has emotional problems due to a previous bad relationship at home and he is only working to level 2/3 in all subjects. I am worried from what the head has said to me informally that he will not hold him back.
Can I appeal to anyone? Take it any further?
I want to be prepared so I don't stand there looking silly in the head's office! That would bring back memories!

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hockeyforjockeys · 02/02/2012 18:32

I am not an expert on this so don't take any store by my advice! I have worked in upper KS2 for some years now, and we have never kept any child back. We do, however, send children to secondary school every year who fit the description of your son. Secondaries are well used to dcs like your son, and the ones who are good with SEN will have effective support in place for them.

As far as I am aware the school has no legal obligation to give a place to a child who is not of the age of its designated age group, and there are probably legal/insurance issues that actually prevent this from happening. It is almost certainly a decision that the head cannot take - it would needed to be made by the LEA. I know that our authority does allow applications to go to the 'SEN board' (not sure of the correct title!) for children to enter secondary outside of their designated cohort, however I don't know of any cases where this has actually been granted.

mrz · 02/02/2012 19:06

Is it a state school?

If so it is very unusual for a LEA to educate children out of year unless there are significant SEN much worse than a child who is achieving level 3 I'm afraid

Flisspaps · 02/02/2012 19:15

Without having any knowledge of your particular circumstances, surely it would be more damaging for your son to know he's been held back a year because he's not 'achieving' and not to be able to go up to secondary school with all the other children his own age than to go with the rest of the year group?

I don't see what your son will gain from repeating Y6?

It won't just affect this one year - this is going to have a knock on effect for the next 5 years at least, meaning that he'll be finishing school a year later than his friends - or giving him the option to actually leave 'school' at the end of Year 10 without sitting his GCSE examinations or whatever end-of-school examinations that will be sat by school-leavers when your son turns 18 a year ahead of the rest of his year (given that 18 is the age that children will be expected to remain in education until soon)

asiatic · 02/02/2012 23:50

I have never, in 20 years teaching, come across any child being held back, whatever their abilities, and circumstances. What would happen at the other end of thei r education? They wouldn't get any oppertunity to take any year 11 qualifications, they would have to leave KS4 in year 10!

LittenTree · 03/02/2012 10:35

When I was at primary rather a long time ago, I sat at the back of the class, aged 10, next to a boy, 12, to assist him. I went up to GS a year early, he was being held back a year! Fwiw he's now chairman of the Parish Council!)... I am not for a second advocating that but it was certainly not that uncommon back then.

I think one facet being overlooked is that it just might benefit some DCs the opportunity to consolidate their position of 'big fish in small pond' for one more year with a year's more maturity before going to Big School where they are very much the small fry. I so wish both my DSs, esp DS2 had been able to repeat YR. It would have made SO much difference! He'd've not known any 'different' (which a Y6 DC would); he would definitely not have been alone in repeating and his school work which is currently a good, solid achievement for half way through Y5 and would put him around the middle of Y5- as opposed to depressingly near the bottom of Y6, where he is- AND he is absolutely the smallest boy in Y6.

Flisspaps · 03/02/2012 11:37

asiatic it was common for overseas students to be kept back a year in the secondary school I worked in so that they could do GCSEs.

Often they'd arrive at the age of our Y11s but would be put into Y10 to allow them to do the full 2 year courses and gain reasonable qualifications. They could choose to leave at the end of Y10 but most stayed until they'd done the two years, when they were 17. This is fine.

However doing this with a Y6 child purely on ability seems a bit...bonkers.

MorningPurples · 03/02/2012 12:21

I always think the system here is very inflexible. I came from a country where it was possible for children to be held back, and certainly that had it's problems too - I'd not routinely advocate that, either - but I think refusing to consider it is equally problematic. There seems to be the assumption that a child should always be kept with chronological age peers, and that that is therefore better for their social/emotional development. In many cases, I think it is true. But not always.

In some children, I think being far ahead or far behind children of the same age does lead to maturity differences, which can also cause social or emotional difficulties. Sometimes bright children can fit better with the year above, just with more similar interests, ideas, ways of thinking about things, than they do with their own year group, and end up being treated differently amongst their own age. Not badly, but just seen, somehow, as not part of the group in the same way. This happened to me - I was seen as a helper, someone to ask about things, etc, just more like an older sibling, perhaps, than an equal. I was the very oldest in my year already, and then well ahead academically. Yes, I learned about getting on with people of different abilities, yes I learned to teach and explain and help, and those were all valuable. But it wasn't the same as having friends who thought the same way as I did, who liked the same books, ideas, etc. It was just a different relationship, and there were things I missed out on by not having some of the ordinary aspects of friendships. Certainly not the case for all such children, and some who are working ahead academically might well be totally fine friendship-wise with children their own age. But not unheard of, either.

Same with the other end of the spectrum. I've taught children who are working well below the others, an in some cases, this does affect their maturity as well. They have more in common with the younger year group, enjoy playing with them more, have similar interests and ways of dealing with things, and just generally seem like a younger child. Keeping them with age-matched peers can mean that they are never entirely treated as equals, but potentially babied, left-behind (not always deliberately, but just in that way that happens when children don't have the same interests, etc). There have been children I've worked with where I felt that they would fit in with the younger year in so many ways, and just be that much happier, because they'd be more similar/typical to the others of that age. By no means is that true of all children - many who are simply behind academically are totally typical of their age in maturity, and routinely keeping them back would be a disservice. I just wish there was more flexibility, and some acknowledgement that at times, academic ability and the degree of difference from 'average' does end up changing peer relationships too, and the argument of always having to keep a child in their year group so that they'll have normal social development doesn't always work. I wish they could look at individual situations more instead of blanket policies. Things like funding and insurance and what happens at the end of usual school-leaving age etc could always be worked around, if the flexibility were there in the first place.

LittenTree · 03/02/2012 12:49

What morningpurples said!

crazygracieuk · 03/02/2012 13:34

I think your main problem is that secondary school places are given on the basis of age and if your son repeats a year then he will be out of sync.

Personally I'd send him to secondary and see if it is possible to repeat a year at secondary. Is the one that you've applied for bigger than his primary school? If so there could be other level 3 children and they might be better at helpng your son.

IndigoBell · 03/02/2012 14:05

Have you applied for a secondary school for him?

Do they think he can meet his needs?

I think you'd be much better spending your energy in working with the secondary school to get him help.

There will be loads of other kids entering secondary school on those levels (about 20% enter with a L3 or less)

frannyzooey · 03/02/2012 16:22

Thank you everyone for all your posts.
Sadly it sounds like some teachers posting say it just never happens that a child is held back. I guess I have to be prepared for a refusal. I myself skipped a year in primary school and so I'm aware that it's not easy being with one's peer group. But I am quite adamant that my son is mentally, emotionally, physically at year 5 not year 6 level and that I have to stick up for his interests by doing what I feel is right for him.
It's interesting to hear that there are so many at level 3 (actually he's at level 2) - and yes I have put him down for a secondary but at the time I was not aware that he was academically so far behind. No chance of doing anything on sats. He's worked with learning support the whole way thru primary and now the teachers are wondering why he has low self esteem and can't work independently! I am hoping he can get out of that vicious circle of "nurture groups" before secondary because once he's in there he'll just stay put the same way he did all thru primary!

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frannyzooey · 03/02/2012 16:29

hi yes it is a small state school, they are holding one other child from my son's year back who has been diagnosed with dyspraxia and the mum said it has taken her four years of struggling to get it.

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ReallyTired · 03/02/2012 16:29

What makes you think he would make significant progress if held back a year. He isn't going to suddenly hit level four standard and he will miss his friends.

Have you considered external tutoring to get his levels up if you believe it is possible?

I think that being kept down a year for SEN is a recipe for being bullied. He would be bottom of my son's year 5 class and still in "nuture groups". Being with children with similar ablites and age would be kinder than stuck in a year 5 nuture groups. At secondary school he would be a small group and that group would probably have a TA. Are you worried that he will be in distruptive classes?

IndigoBell · 03/02/2012 16:46

If they're holding another child back, then it sounds like that mum is the person who'll know the most.

frannyzooey · 03/02/2012 16:55

He was assessed as having a "developmental delay" caused by a bad relationship with his then-stepfather, my then-husband and I feel he still has not caught up. You are right that he may not catch up anyway. He did have tutoring in maths for a year which helped a bit. His best friend is in year 5 anyway, he doesn't really have close friendships in his year as he moved school in year 4 and they are all quite mature streetwise boys, some of them quite bright.
Yes, I am worried about him working with a TA with a lot of disruptive kids who have special needs and social problems whereas my son has put his problems behind him now.

I have spoken at length to the other mum, she says it's going to be a struggle!

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mrz · 03/02/2012 17:17

I'm shocked that a LEA has agreed to keep a child with dyspraxia back a year to be honest.

LittenTree · 03/02/2012 17:27

I too fear that my 'less able' DS2 is going to be in the lower group(s?) in secondary where, in some schools, not only the less able but the badly behaved and undiagnosed SEN languish. For this reason we moved into the catchment of a very MC comprehensive who certainly appear to do pretty well by all their admittedly 'by and large 'above average' intake. They specifically say they don't allow the lazy to laze in too low a group- AND they school don't do a vast amount of streaming, anyway. So we have everything crossed.

One point that seems to be being missed is the reality that if 'holding back' was more commonplace, a DC who did that wouldn't feel so 'singled out'. DS's Y1 teacher told me she could identify at least 7 boys who'd benefit from repeating Y1!

BabyGiraffes · 03/02/2012 21:12

Why is there so much emphasis on chronological age in the UK? It's complete nonsense because children of the same age can be years apart in maturity. My view is biased, I admit, because I was brought up on the continent where being held back or advanced a year is quite normal. I even voluntarily repeated a year aged 15 when I moved from a crap comprehensive to the equivalent of a grammar school because I had some serious catching up to do. What is the big deal if it is best for the child? Oh, and what morningpurples said, who put it a bit more eloquently than me. My only experience of the UK system is watching summer born dd struggle bravely in reception while wondering why it appears a good thing to have children who turned 5 just before term started in early September in the same class as two children who happened to be born prematurely (due Sept/Oct) right at the end of August and had barely turned 4... There is a lifetime between these classmates in terms of experience and maturity but then chronological age is all that matters, right? Rubbish.
Rant over Blush

asiatic · 04/02/2012 12:11

Flisspaps, I sometimes wish we could hold non English speakers back, but where I am it is totally impossible. ( to be fair, most students are non English speakers!)

We do have problems with the sheer number who want to come into the schools though, many many from Africa who arrive expecting a free eductaion, and are gobsmacked that they are deemed too old for free schooling. ( I have several furious parents a year telling me that is why they came!)
It is true that some counties offer education indefinatly, but it is very rare for this to be offered for free.

In this country you get one chance at each year from year 1 to year 13 for free, that is it. The only year it is possibe to retake is year 11, if you move into the 6th form, you can still do a year of SOME level two courses. then do year 13 and 14 as level 3 courses. Anything beyond that IS available, but only if paid for in full.

The OP, if she gets what she wants for her son ( misguided in my opinion) will just lose out on a year somewhere else in his education, it is NOT automatic to progress from one year to another, after year 11 it depends entirly on DOB, so he will miss out on post 16 oppertunities. What a terrible shame if he finds an apprenticeship course that suits him exactly, but he is too old for!

To change the UK system to allow for retaking years would cost countless millions, and I can't see that being available in our life time

IndigoBell · 04/02/2012 14:06

I certain,y assume the reason you're not allowed to stay back is because it will cost the country more money.

But by and large it's a good policy (with some exceptions)

I think the school systems where you can fail a year and be forced to repeat are terrible. It's much better for teachers to teach all kids in the class at their level, then to try to squish all the kids into the same level.

Also kids DO catch up. I would have gladly kept my DD back in reception, Y1 and Y2. Now she's in Y4 I'm very glad I didn't.

mrz · 04/02/2012 14:26

My limited experience of children being held back is very negative

frannyzooey · 04/02/2012 14:57

mrz what is your experience of children being held back? as a parent, or teacher?
asiatic, guess I am ignorant but is it really true that if my son finished education age 17 not 16 he would not be eligible for certain training programmes? I did think we are moving towards a system where everyone will attend until 18 (in his case 19) anyway.
I did skip a year (I grew up in Canada) and I know it has emotional repurcussions, it's not easy but I do think it's better than forcing him into something he's not ready for.

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mrz · 04/02/2012 15:13

As a teacher

maddiemostmerry · 04/02/2012 15:21

My LEA will hold back a year in exceptional circumstances but will always then expect the child to jump a year back to the right year group further in their education. That causes significant problems and I've only really known it work where a child has been held back a year at primary and then gone onto a special needs secondary.
There are a lot of children starting secondary on level 2 or 3. My own son was on level 3 and qualified for no extra support.
Obviously you are concerned about his emotional difficulties. I would find out how supportive the secondary school you expect him to attend will be and what they can do for him.

frannyzooey · 04/02/2012 15:28

mrz can you tell me what yr experience was??

I think the school has a good reputation for "nurturing" and I will look into that if I don't get anywhere with him staying back.

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