parent consultations - feeling low

[Katherine]

I've just been to my first parent evening/ consulation for DS (5). He has been at school since January and I thought he was doing pretty well - not brilliantly, but well enough.

However his teacher described him as immature, bottom of the class, struggling to keep up, too quiet.... etc etc and said they have put him with the new reception children when he should be year 1 now.

On the one hand it is no surprise to me that he has more in common with a child born in September than one born in April as he was born mid-August so is more or less the youngest in his year and he was 5 weeks early. So I am happy enough with his progress I supose. Its a system problem rather than his problem.

But I am worried. Will he catch up? In a small village school where 3 classes are put together its easy to be flexible with him but what about later on? And I'm worried about how he feels about it all although he's showing no signs of being upset. And I'm worried that he's already been labelled as struggling and that this will stick with him.

Most of all I feel that the school system has let him down. At the moment they use a cut off point 1st Sept, to decide what year a child should be in but children vary so much. The teacher said it was just a shame he didn't hang on a couple more weeks as then he'd be fine. I think that there should be a grey area, from say July to October, when parents can choose which year their child enters so that if they feel its best, a child can be held back and stay in this position throughout their school career.

I'm probably worrying unecessarily - after all he's right at the beginning and has all the time in the world to learn but how should I handle it. Do I need to do more work at home with him to help him catch up? I prefer to let him play at home as he does enough learning at school. So do I just ignore it and wait and see?

Just needed a bit of a rant really.

agree with you the system sucks! I wouldn;t do more work at home- it'll put him off. Play is more important (and is children's work). Does he have problems with his attention span? I'm sure there must be games etc that you can do with him which will help that (perhaps do simple memory games with him as well- eg those find the pairs things- good fun but also should help directly with school). Otherwise at this stage I'd wait and see. He's now with the right group from when he "should" have been born- and so hopefully he'll seem mature in comparison rather than immature (have to say I think describing a 5 year old as immature is a bit daft of the teacher- surely most 5 year olds are!).

Katherine, you're right, the system is pants and it is outrageous IMO that children are labelled so very early. I don't even think they should be in school at 5 tbh but hey ho. I'd say she's a silly old moo for making you feel like this and the main thing is that your ds is happy. So in your position I really wouldn't do any other work at home with him, I'd just do my best to make sure he's happy and that this old witch's attitude doesn't rub off. But I'd say yes, he will catch up and things will likely look very different in a couple of years time.

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I agree with the other posters here. I think it is the teacher who is rather immature for labelling a 5-year old immature and bottom of class. Bottom of class at the age of 5? Jeez.....

Thanks all. Makes me feel a bit better. Although I've had problems with her in the past I did feel the teacher was trying to be nice about it this time but she is limited and had to tell me something after all.

DS is interested in word games. Hes devised an opposites game which we play in the car and I'm trying to encourage alphabet animals etc too. Have been menaing to get him set up on the PC for ages (but its my domain!!!!!!) DH has brought home a mac laptop which the children can use. Just need some programmes for it. Think he'd like that. Just wary of being too bogged down in everything being educational.

He's got a fabulous imagination and loves anything practical. Tried to point that out at the school. Just thihnk they focus too much on the negatives when they should be praising what he is good at. Worried his confidence will be taken away.

Katherine, I suspected that this would happen to my DS1 (four in August) so I refused to let him start school in September.

Your DS is bound to have more in common with a Sept child! He is normal! The teacher is a prat!

Our intended school is attached to his preschool and they assume he will be attending. Since May last year they have nagged and mithered me about when he'll start, often through a third party. I've stuck to my guns. I went to see them about him starting after christmas last week, but by the time the conversation had finished, Christmas had become next week! (To 'close the gap' between him and his peers). I don't want 'the gap' to be closed. I don't want him to be acting and working beyond his age. His peers are almost a full year older than him! So I said no, he doesn't come at all then, and we're going to look at another school next week. He may start at Easter and I think that's soon enough. Like www, I think 5 is too young, let alone 4.

My advice to you would be to let him play at home and don't worry. They usually catch up in later years, but really, you ought to be comparing him with himself, not with a bunch of people he won't even know in 20 years time.

PS - is it a small school? If so, she'll probably be thinking about her sats results. One below average can pull the group down by, ie, 20%, if it's a small group. Pants again - she should have the individual child's at the forefront, not these stupid teats. Things like this make me want to home educate.

My ds has just been taken out of his private swimming classes, as he's too young and not liking it. Come again after Easter, his teacher said, we don't want to put him off for life. Now there's a sensible teacher.

Katherine

My experience is that schools have quite a narrow focus when they determine the brightness or otherwise of a child. They are not usually too interested in all the periphery things a child can do, only how they are achieving on their very very narrow analysis.

This tends to be on highly measurable things e.g. do they know all their number bonds for 10, can they read, write and use all the key words for thier year etc.

As a result I don't think at this age their views are particulaly valuable.

However, I do share your concern about him being labeled. I would request a meeting with the Headteacher. I would ask for a plan as to how the school is planning to deal with the situation. I would explain that this is not your experience of your child, and that there are probably other factors at play. Is he having problems settling in. Is he being unchallenged. Dare I say it, does the teacher just not like him, or conversely does he not like the teacher. I would very much stress that this is a school problem not a home one. However, show that you are willing to co-operate in working with the school to help them identify the problems and the solutions.

You say the teacher says he is quiet - that may because he is unhappy there.

I really don't think there is any problem as far as your DS is concerned but by escalating the problem with the school you will be making sure that they know that you are expecting things of them, i.e. that they own the issue not you!!

Katherine - parent consultations can be quite stressful times for everyone, especially if the news is a surprise. The teacher may not feel they have time to explain their comments clearly (or very sensitively), and you may not feel you have had chance to ask questions.

We had p/cs just before half term (which were fine), but a week ago I wanted a chat with the teacher about ds1, and asked to see her after school. I was really struck by the different atmosphere - she had 'all the time in the world', or at least that's how it felt to me, and it was much easier to communicate properly, to ask for feedback and suggestions, further explanation, etc.

Maybe a further chat with the teacher under different circumstances might clarify some things for you?

Did that teacher actually say anything nice about your son? What a sniffy woman!

It reminds me of a comment I got from my oldest son's teacher at the beginning of Year 1. I was told he hadn't much of a work ethic! I felt like saying 'good for him!'

I think you need to ask for another meeting after christmas to see how he's doing, and ask to keep updated on progress. I really hate the idea that anyone can lable a child as bottom of the class at age 5. From what I've gathered talking to teachers, you can't make judgements like that at this young age.

If you think he is too shy at school, how about getting him involved in some group activites out of school? Pick things he's happy to do, things that will to build his confidence, like beavers, swimming, gymnastics or drama lessons. Even better if children from his school go to these acitvites too. IMO this would be better than giving him extra lessons at home.

Tigermoth - no she didn't and I think thats what got to me most. I'm so used to people saying what a lovely kind, polite warm little boy he is that it wa a shock. One of her biggest complaints was that he's not competitive. She commented that after PE they usually say "fist one to get dressed,,,,," but when the others are dashing about DS just gets on at his own pace. Have to say this made me laugh as I can picture him and I think its great.

JMG - she IS the headteacher! I think he is quiet by nature - we both are. But some things she said didn't ring true. She said he doesn't recognise 6-10 yet but he'd been doing that fine at home. DH who's dyslexic commented that whenever he became anxious that he couldn't do things at all and I worry that this is the problem. I really do think she doesn't like him very much. I can't wait until he gets to Yr3 - new teacher then and she's lovely but that feels a long way off

Droille - it is a small school. Max. 8 per year which is why they group 3 classes together for the infants. Always thought this was a good thing but hadn't thought about stats. You are probably right.

I will keep asking her about progress just to show I do care but I'm not going to make a big thing of it at home. I've decided the best thing I can do for him is boost his confidence. The worst thing is that DD2 is the end of August so I'm going to have to dothis all again in a couple of years time. Still at least I'll be wiser then

I'm amazed (and shocked) that you were told your ds was 'bottom of the class'. I thought that this sort of thing has stopped. I went to a parent meeting for dd last night, and we have never been told her relative position in the class, just how she is doing and if there are any problems/worries.

katherine I can't believe that a) she is complaining that he is too quiet (normally these days boys are being told off for being too noisy) and b) that he's not competitive! So what!

Does he show any signs of being uncomfortable- or is he a perfectionist? My son (who has had far far far too many assessments with strangers) refuses point blank to do things he can do if he doesn't like the person, or isn't sure about what he's being asked to do.

Think it would be worth asking for a meeting.

I agree with everyone - the teacher was most unhelpful and un-constructive. "bottom of the class" indeed. Doesn't mean much when there are so few in the class anyway does it? (mind you, I agree the whole concept is silly at this age).

However, when I was at school there were at least 3 people in my year who technically should have been in the year above (all born in August incidentally). None had any problems because of it and did a lot better than they would have done if they had been put with the older age group. Do they not still do allow this?

Anyway it's very early yet: your son will probably catch up, but does it really matter if he doesn't?

Katherine

Your ds reminds me so much of mine. He is 5.5 and last year his teacher complained how long he would take to do things, how quiet he was in class, how he would often dream and not focus. Similarly his report would demonstrate to me that he was underperforming at school compared to home.

However we have a different teacher this year who is more quietly spoken and less dismissive and she is far more positive about him and his levels of participation. Perhaps the intervening months have made a difference but also I think it is in the teacher's perception. His reading and levels of numeracy improved dramatically in the first few weeks of term. He has come out of himself much more quickly this year compared to last, even though it is a different mix of children in the class and a different building. I also encourage him to do a few extra curricular activities as otherwise he gets few opportunties to do team sports or get to see his friends in other classes.

I do hope you can negotiate with this teacher so that she can perhaps spend more time with your ds as an individual and recognise his potential. It is a good suggestion to review his progress again outside the Parent/Teacher conference, especially if it is giving cause for concern. Almost certainly she is thinking of the SAT scores but that is not your primary concern as a parent. Surely she needs to adapt to his level and build up his confidence and a good teacher with a small class should be able to do this.

I have to say I sympathise as I spent a year feeling frustrated that although his school had ds for the better part of the day the teacher really did not bring out the best in him for much of that year. However ds was for the main part happy and that was what really counted, and I was able to take comfort from the knowledge that he would have a new teacher this year.

Hope you manage to sort this out,

Agree with everyone, Katherine. Your son sound absolutely lovely - a truly sweet and adorable boy. What's so great about being competitive and loud? He's a five year old child, not an arse of a city trader! I think the teacher/headmistress was very rude and stupid. Of course a five year old is immature. Doh! And he is young for his year so, yes, he will probably seem young, because he is. Oh, I would have been so cross if I were you. Don't panic over this at all, and certainly don't rush to give him extra educational input etc - I think computers for little children are highly overrated as an educational tool. He's only a baby! Just carry on as you are, you aren't doing anything wrong IMO and neither is he.

I agree with aloha and everyone else, your son does sound lovely. I bet he is really thoughtful and contemplative. I bet he listens better than the others, if he's quiet. Quiet is not a failing, it's often a sign of great competence. And as for not being competitive, crikey! He probably has more sense than to rush to do something so pointless! The woman is an absolute arsehole. I'm getting mad and I don't even know her! GGRRRRRR!
One of my worries has always been that they forget summer born children are a great lump younger. Especially with my DS, as he's extremely tall for his age.
Katherine, are you really going to let DD2 go in in September? My second son is a May birthday, but I'll probably still keep him back until the christmas after he turns 4.

Droile its weird isn't it- expectations are based so much on physical appearance! My son is also tall for his (looks at least 5- only 4) also can't talk at all- has language ability of a 12-18 month old, and yet becuase he looks "normal" too much (imo) is expected of him.

Remember some schools will let you start part time as well. DS1 is going part time at the moment (3 mornings a week- with 4 nursery sessions as well- not attached- different place). Apparently most years one or two children go part time for a while- the parent's only have to request it.

Droile - I ddn't mean to imply DD2 is about to start - she is only 12 weeks old! Maybe the school policy will have changed by then. Perhaps if I start campaignining now....DS started in the January after he turned 4, although if he'd gone to the other nearby school he was expected to start in the September which I wasn't prepared to do.

Lucy123 do you mean that DS would stay with the recption year children right the way through instead of what is now Yr1. That would be my ideal as I'm sure it would suit him. I will arrange another meeting and discuss whether that is possible. We were the last ones to be seen and it was 8.30 so perhaps if I make an appointment after christmas to see how he's doing then she'll be a bit less abrupt.

Katherine,

I had an argument about being kept down in reception instead of joining year 1 with DS's would-be teacher last week. My friend's daughter was put back into reception (without them telling my friend!) at a different school. 'Oh no, they couldn't possibly have done that' said the teacher, 'they couldn't, legally, because she would have had SATs at the age of 6 and it's a legal requirement for them to teach her at that level'. So I'm a liar then, am I? Not a good start! The girl in question was not being taught at year 1 level and hadn't been for some time. (she's now being home-educated). Some schools DO teach individual children at the level that suits their ability rather than their age.

Yes jimjams, annoying isn't it, they take one look at the size of them and that's it.
Actually, DS1's possible school would take him part-time and that's what we agreed to, until they started talking about accelerating it so that he would be F/T by Christmas. So there won't be a 'gap' - it's talk like that that really gets my goat, like they are shoe-horning him into the mincer. I can't get Pink Floyd out of my head now - think I'm turning into an anarchist.

I can see where everyone is coming from here...and I agree that the teacher may be should not have phrased her comments as she did
But please do not tar us all with the same brush.....some of us teachers are nice.....
and we actually do care about educating children and not just about stupid SATs..
just thought I would put across the other side
btw ds is an august baby and i wonder how he will cope when he starts school in afew years time
there is a brill poem about parents evenings....will get a copy and post it here. it is about how they are very strssful for all invloved. JUst something to consider!

ps not trying to be arsey...just trying to add the other perspective
ask for a followup meeting with teacher - all more relaxed and she can expeand a little more on her comments and clarify things for you