Does anyone know about a BTEC level 2 in Performing Arts?

[KatyMac]

Is it any good?

What is a level 2, GCSE standard?

Help?

Level 2 is the same level as GCSE, yes. BTECs are often equivelant to 4 GCSEs

Which presumably mean 4 less GCSEs

Hmm I'm not sure about that; although I can see the attraction.

If they do PA at Sixth form I guess it's a different qualification?

Be very careful, Btec level 2s were technically the equivilant of 4 GCSEs, but as almost no one ever accpeted that in the next atage of education, they are being officially down graded to 3.

Having said that, when I am enrolling for 6th form, I woulfn't accept a btec as wortyh 3 GCSE's either. Many A level courses just don't accept btecs full stop.

Now , completley contradiciting what I've just said! PA is a different type of subject, to the academic ones in my personal experience, and it may be that the btec is just the right qualification to show ability in PA.

You need to look carefully at the next stage. Whee wil DC be applying to for 6th form? Speak to them before commiting to a btec.

Incidently, if DC are in year 9 , and intend to do it over 3 years, then DON'T. Can't stress this too highly,

The btec foramt is changing so fundementally over the next two years that no one starting in year 9 and not finishing by year 10, will be able to finish at all.

Hmm I thought over a year - but I could be wrong

She is doing Geography & Spanish GCSEs and Science & Dance Btec (these are being described as single GCSE equivalent)

It's a possibility for year 10 or 11 maybe

6th form is a bit of a problem tbh, we think she will have to go way to school/college which I'm not too happy about but there isn't much alternative

There are a lot of misconceptions about BTECs...

I teach Level 2 and Level 3 BTEC in Performing Arts. IMO, it is a more appropriate course for Performing Arts than GCSE. It is almost completely practical, and gives students a lot of "real" experience. Some GCSE Drama syllabi are more like English Lit with a bit of performance thrown in.

Level 2 BTEC can be "equivalent" of either 1 GCSE (BTEC Certificate), 2 GCSEs (BTEC Extended Certificate) or 4 GCSEs (BTEC Diploma) At my school, we do BTEC Certificate in 1 year, and Extended Certificate or Diploma over 2 years, depending on the ability of the students.

BTEC Level 3 PA follows a very similar pattern to Level 2, but I take students in VI Form who haven't done Performing Arts at all at KS4, and provided they have an interest in the subject, they tend to do well.

Crabapple99 - I'm afraid you know very little about it when you say that "Many A Level courses just don't accept BTECs full stop". That is simply not true. The majority of universities are also fine with Level 3 BTECs provided that they are appropriate to the degree course being applied for.

Performing Arts is one of the BTECs currently undergoing change, and as from September 2012, will include an element of external assessment which is currently not there. This will not change things massively in centres which are doing things properly, and will bring it in line with the majority of GCSE Drama syllabi, as the external assessment will involve an external moderator watching a performance for one of the core units (most likely Acting Skills and Techniques)

Crabapple - I've just re-read your post. It is complete tosh. All of it. Where do you get your information from?

When they say equivalent to 1 gcse that is in terms of timetable time.

When they say equivalent to up to 4 gcse's that is in terms of league table accounting I think but that is changing.

PA is a course which lends itself to BTEC. Science is a subject which does too - BUT with science it will potentially close doors and prevent her doing A Level sciences (but higher btec awards are available ). If she is not interested in science a levels this is not an issue.

HauntedLittleLunatic makes a good point- the "GCSE equivalent" thing comes in some ways from the Guided Learning Hours given to the course. A BTEC Level 2 Diploma would demand 4x the GLH of a BTEC Level 2 Certificate, IYSWIM. I actually find the term "equivalent" quite frustrating, as it just makes it easy for people to criticise!

Eviltwins - I applaud everything you said! BTECs have been given a bad press and if people were bothered to actually look at the specs/amount of work expected to achieve the high grades then maybe they would take themselves away from the 'DM' way of thinking....

year 9 students have also been given a grace year; as long as they are doing an extended certificate or diploma (more than 120 GLH)

DD would be starting in Sept 12 or 13 so that's not an issue

She appears to be down for 4 GCSE/Btec a year for 3 years & the PA Btec appears to be instead of 4 GCSEs

But I have a meeting with school in the New Year (well at least I have asked for one)

What sort of 6th form courses could/should she be thinking about doing? (for a career in Dance/Musical Theatre)

if she is thinking of a career in this area then a BTEC is more than ideal as it is a vocational qualification in terms of applying the theory to the practical rather than just focusing on the theory behind a subject

Which bit are you disputing evil twins?

KatyMac, The btec will no longe be considered as worth 4 GCSEs ( in real terms it never was, only counted as such for the school, not the student)

It might be a good way to show your ability in PA, but only allow her to fo Btec in academic subjects if you are 100% SURE she will not want to do an A level in this subject.
You can go on to a level 3 btec, but these tend to be very expensive to run, far fewer schools do them, and they are hugly oversubscribed. Yes, if you get a place, and dod well, lots of universitys accept them.

Its heart breaking every year to see excited students arrive to enrol at 6th form, only to find that decisions made by their schools purely to boost league table results, have taken away the choices they thought they had for level 3 courses.

(Cricket balls, the "grace year" is for year 10s, not year 9s)

sorry but it is for year 9 students !&A from Edexcel briefing that I attended

1. For subjects that aren?t being redeveloped for September 2012, will BTECs still count in the headline measure of the 2014 league tables, for my current year 9s who have already registered on the existing qualification?

A: Under the DfE?s year of grace, as long as the existing qualifications are 120glh or greater, these qualifications should be counted in headline measures in the 2014 tables. This is subject to final confirmation when the DfE publish the list of headline measure qualifications in January next year. Because of the size requirements, the existing 90glh Level 2 BTEC Certificates will not fall within
the year?s grace rule and therefore won?t be recognised in the headline easures for 2014. Centres currently delivering these qualifications to their year 9s should consider switching to the existing 180glh BTEC Extended Certificates if they wish to attract recognition in the headline measures for 2014.

oh and I have had students (achieving distinction8 in their BTEC undertake an AS exam with only 2 revision session achieving a C grade in year 11) therefore the statement of not studying a subject at BTEC is you are 100% sure of not choosing it for A level is a very misleading statement.

In fact, within my subject a BTEC is more suitable for leading on to A level exams as the emphasis in A level is to answer to the question (like BTEC assignments) rather than spilling out facts without any reference to the scenario

I have also taken btec students onto A level, bt only if I know them, as many local schools inflate their grades artificailly, so I don't nessessarily trust the grades they arrive with.
Even then, it is a difficult transition.
It isn't impossible to move from btec to A level, but there is no garantee that you will be allowed to , and round here at least, if yo are not known to the A level staff, the answer will be no.
Edexcel clearly need to get their act together, because it seems they are not giving out consistant information, we have been officially informed by them that year 9s currentloy doing the diploma will HAVE to finish in year 10, or not finish at all.

The local college has refused Btec Science before A level science

I am fairly sure DD will be dancing at 16......(injuries pending) based on the work she is putting in now; but you know how teenagers change their mind

I'm guessing the Btec Dance is OK for what she wants to do & Music GCSE as n option for next year

Part of the problem is we didn't get proper explanations for this whole new system I think 4 GCSEs a year for three years is daft tbh

Crabapple - I don't think it's Edexcel who "need to get their act together".

And the bits of your previous post I dispute are:

1. " Btec level 2s were technically the equivilant of 4 GCSEs, but as almost no one ever accpeted that in the next atage of education, they are being officially down graded to 3." - I wonder who the "almost no one" is - IMO, a BTEC Level 2 Diploma (which is NOT the only Level 2 BTEC) is widely accepted as equivalent to 4 GCSEs. It is not being "downgraded" because no one believes it is worth 4 GCSEs.

2."Many A level courses just don't accept btecs full stop." - complete rubbish. 3."The btec foramt is changing so fundementally over the next two years that no one starting in year 9 and not finishing by year 10, will be able to finish at all." - no idea where you've got this bit from. Edexcel are re-formatting BTECs in line with the government's current requirements. They are revising specs at Level 2, starting with certain subjects (including Perf Arts) which will mean that all BTECs have to include an element of external assessment. This does not constitude a fundamental change.

You go on to say that many schools inflate their grades artificially. IME, this is not possible. Schools are required to have stringent IV policies, and at least one member of staff in each dept will have passed exams to become Lead IV for that subject. One of the reasons BTECs get such bad press is that people assume the grades can be artificially inflated and that no one will check them. I find this insulting. My students work bloody hard, at KS4 AND KS5.

Are you a teacher, Crabapple? Your spelling is bloody dreadful.

Honestly? I don't actually think you should plan your GCSEs and a levels around a career in performing arts. Plan them around getting a job to keep you going between parts. When you think how many of the actors/dancers who survive in the business actually have really good qualifictions in other areas.... And it only takes a torn ligament to shift you from performer to shit- what do I do now!

Is she in year 9 at the moment then? It does seem odd, there are no circumstances in which she is likely to need 12 GCSEs. I think you are right to ask for an appointment to have this fully explained to you. I have seen many students trust their schools blindly, and find out too late their choices have been slashed. mention to the school that btecs are being down graded too, they should be aware, but it is possible to miss these things if you don't use the exam board website regularly.

Anyone who teaches BTECs is fully aware of the changes in Level 2 specs. They are not being "downgraded" though. In terms of league tables, schools will only be able to declare two "non-GCSE" subjects per student, but this will only affect league tables, not individual students' achievements.

I love teaching BTEC Performing Arts, but would never encourage a child at Yr 9 to plan their options around a career as a performer - I agree completely with seeker. Where I teach, students are encouraged to take one BTEC - it is felt that a rounded education is best, and the vocational aspect of BTECs can be a very positive thing. Also, a subject like BTEC Performing Arts is a nice change from a purely academic curriculum.

Crabapple - you are very hung up on the whole "4 GCSE equivalent" thing - only SOME BTECs are seen as this, and you are correct to say that the new specs will be different. However, even Edexcel do not claim that their BTEC Diplomas are "equivlalent" to 4 GCSEs - they refer to the number of GLHs.

OP - if your daughter wants to take BTEC Level 2 Performing Arts, then I would say let her. It is unlikely that this will be in place of 4 other GCSEs. Certainly in my school, BTEC Performing Arts is taken as a single option. Other BTECs are done as Extended Certificates, but I am able to push the majority of my students through a Diploma because they take part in a large number of extra-currcular activities, all of which bump up the GLHs and can be assessed for their course.

Yep yr9

She has done (& passed) her first GCSE oral in Spanish & has her geography mock (or possibly exam) in Jan (I think)

I agree Seeker, but at the same time 12 GCSEs seems overkill and additional pressure that she doesn't need

The list appears to be:
GCSE
Maths
Eng lit
Eng Lang
Spanish
Geog
IT
Science

BTec
Dance
Science

With a further 3 electives (1 in yr10 & 2 in yr 11)

& I'm not sure she needs 12 or will benefit from doing them

Of course the other option is that she leaves school at the end of this yer to go to a dance school (which I am not keen on tbh)

The current system with a lead IV is certainly an improvement eveil twins. Prior to that, there ws no way of knowing if anything had been moderated, ever, and often teacher went years between checks. I think the=at would be harder to do this year certainly, remains to be seen whether there is any increase in trust about the results.

Still it does nothing to get around the problem of staff telling students what to do to pass an assignment.

Maybe your studdents have worked hard enough for their qualificatuion to genuinely be worht 4 GCSEs. Many haven't. I can't see myself accepting thaem as the equivilant of 3 GCSEs either.