Maths teachers, what is this called ?

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I've flicked ahead in son's maths textbook to see whats coming up next to aviod being caught on the hop.(again)

What would you call this in English ? (it's a quick video, cos I don't know how to upload pics)

A literal translation suggests "absolute rational numbers", but when I googled that it didn't look the same at all.

freemathdictionary.com/aa/absolute-rational-number/

So the school work isn't preparing them adequately for the state tests? I'd certainly focus on those if they seem slightly less insane than his classwork. Have you thought about giving him an English maths SATs paper to have a go at? I can see why his confidence might be being dented by the terrible curriculum he's being provided with.

English SATs papers are online at emaths.co.uk under 4 Students.

The casio calculators take a bit of getting used to as you enter stuff as you would write it which is different to old calculators, but they've got a manual and once you get used to it, they're brilliant.

So the school work isn't preparing them adequately for the state tests

They are new, and a total different kind of exam, they look a lot like SATS and share many of the sames objectives, so the teachers are thrown for a bit of a loop and don't really know how to prepare for them.

He likes the past papers from the SATS and the INVALSI, we did lots through put last year as a revision aid to help with his sieve shaped brain and retention issues.

I think in part cos they are the same exam culture as the Cambridge language exams, which I am very familar with and explained as we went along, so he doesn't have the same difficulty working out what is being asked of him as many of the other kids do.

I'm quite looking forward to doing fractions on a calculator, it will feel very Star Trek.

I've flipped though the second maths textbook that's for the second half of the year.

It's all measures and geometry, nothing looks that out of place for the age range and he is strong in that area so from Jan onwards hopefully things will be less frantic.

You know what, I fucking give up.

Chatting about upcoming homework with DH in the car while going to school this morning DS revealed that the maths teacher had given a dictation for most of the lesson yesterday, and he had to study that "dirty" copy for a parrot test.

This is identical to art last week.

But MATHS ! And maths with a packed programme pitched well high for 11 year old kids. Why waste at least two maths lessons on this shit when there is so much to do this year that we have an absolute avelanche of homework and "teach him at home, cos they sure aren't at school" sessions cos they (allegedly) can't fit it all in during the school day.

I'm not surpised that DH came back over an hour late from the school run looking shifty, dropped the bombshell and then scuttled out the house again at top speed.

I'm fit to burst.

I can't take this anymore.

It's me not them, it's my cultural expectations that are out of step with the local norm, not theirs.

But I can't take this anymore.

I am totally - they had dictation in Maths???

About what?!

Seems very peculiar.

And in Art too tbh - history of Art maybe? but still what's the point of it all?

What a strange system!!

Art was about history of art.

Maths was about the man who invented set theory.

The point seems to be use up as many classroom hours as possible in the most prep lite way possible.

And then send the actual work home to be taught/done.

I am so monumentally fed up I could eat worms.

I think I may have to conceed that we have to look at alernatives unless "mad forign woman burns down school" is a headline we fancy screaming from the local rag.

So they are telling you they don't have enough curriculum time so the kids have to teach themselves stuff which really requires specialist input but then in the lessons are doing stuff they could easily google when the maths teacher could be helping them understand maths?

That's absolutely bonkers. You've already said the Italian system performs poorly internationally; how is this school regarded within the Italian system?

Because it sounds like they don't have a clue.

In the system as a whole, average probably.

Hard to tell in a precise way becuase there are no instruments or published data to measure with. Well not for the gen pub anyway.

Around our catchment area I had it pegged as the second best school, with a good bit of a gap between this one and the best school, after working in all the local middle schools at the same time (one day in each school).

I wouldn't have chosen this school over my first choice. Not by a long chalk.

I was going to say, the point of doing these fraction exercises is to gain skills and understanding of the priniciples, so that later they can to do them with algebra or constants like pi or g.

And then I saw the maths lessons are dictations about maths history. Okaaay. Maybe it's a blip, but if this goes on you're going to need outside help or a new school. Sorry.

to do

but if this goes on you're going to need outside help or a new school. Sorry.

At the moment I am eyeing up this.

www.interhigh.net/index.asp

It's a compromise rather than a perfect solution, but I'm trying tomwork out if the "virtual" classroom/group based learning combined with his mates in youth club and outside of youthclub will fill the "social" hole he didn't like sp much when we HEed.

Between me, DH and a tutor we can take care of the Italian language/Italian history&geography& civics componant that the above doesn't cover.

I'm getting stuck on the virtual bit though, as in is it really enough to form a basis for the compromise socially speaking.

I may have got myself so tied up in knots that I am overthinking things.

The next step has to be it, I can't have anymore yoyoing, he is 11, we need to find something that at worst "will do" for tje long haul and everybody will just have to lump the bits they are less keen on.

That Interhigh would look like a good solution - especially as he would get to chat to other students his age.

I'm slightly concerned that I can't see anything about exam results on their website. I'd want to know about that before signing up.

What do I ask ?

What % get 5 gcses at A-C ?

Or can I ask about KS3 SATS

I know that the intake is largely home educators and pupils that the LA is paying for, kids who for one reason or another can't access their education in "brick" school. So there will be a higher proportions of pupils that come and go When compared to normal school I'd immagine.

Given that what sort of feedback in terms of results do you think should be a red flag ?

We are an hour ahead so if we go for this (and DH, the luddite, has the most unconvinced expression on his face) we can do Italian/Italian focused subjects and homework from 8.00-10.00 then this school from 10.30-2.30/3.30 depending on the day, then he can go play with his mates.

He'd be doing more or less the same number of school hours as he is now, even with the extra Italian stuff tagged on, and there is no way the homework load could be as onerous as we are dealing with now.

I've just worked out that the fees would cost 12 euros per week more than it currently costs us in petrol to get him to and from school, so very doable.

Have I seen a tiny speck of light at the end of the tunnel?

Nobel, given that he is an August baby, Italian kids tend to be a bit less sophisticated than their British counterparts of the same age, He will have had a real backslide in wirtten English after a year back in the Italian system...do you think it would make more sense for him to start next year as a year seven, rather than push on and make him do year 8.

He wouldn't really react to the number cos they start a year later here, so this year for his class is actually six.

I know there are advantages and disadvantages of holding back, but ...I just feel we are going to effectivly lose this year and I woildn't him starting next year way behind the rest of the class.

It sounds like it :)

Don't know enough either way about the online school but where he is now sounds untenable tbh. Wonder what all the Italian parents think about it all?

Well nobody is exactly complimentary about school, it is seen as an endurance test more than anything else I think

Thing is, it is a perfect match with their expectations, cos that is what school here looks like. So it doesn't drive them as batty as it drices me.

They all seem very pro rote learning and dictation when compared to me, these are generally seen as Good Things, but there is much grumbling about homework volume, constant tests and not enough actual teaching going on.

NDN was called over to talk me down this afternoon, she said "Sarah, you have to remember it is the teacher who has the handle end of the knife, and he needs to get used to
living and working around that"

I love her to bits, she has been a great mate for pver seven years, I don't think she is wrong, the analogy rings bells and sets my red flags flapping....but I can't do it. Cos I want to reach over and slap the knife out of the hand and say it's not supposed to be like this.

I've been trying to adjust to an Italian education since he was six. I don't think it will ever happen at this point, and believe me I really have and do try. Everything else, is fine, it's just school, the one area where my lines in the sand don't have the sort of flex in them that helps in adapting to something really rather different.

Nuns, armed police, insane driving, cars blocking the road into town when the church holds an exorcism...take it all in my stride.

School/education.........fall flat on my face.

I'd feel the same. Insane driving and nuns aren't going to potentially mess up his life chances in the same way this terrible education might. And your sanity and peace in your house.

Is the plan to eventually return to the UK?

As for which year to start him in, I'd ask the school, if you decide to go for it. It seems that they take students from all over the world so they must have some method of assessing what's best for them.

Out of interest, why would you wait till next year? It says they take registrations throughout the year.

Re exam results - I suppose I would want to know their percentage A* to C including Maths and English. KS3 SATs have been abolished but it might be worth asking.

Is the plan to eventually return to the UK?

I want DS to go to the UK (or Holland due to cheapness of fees) at least for higher ed, just so he knows his options in life extend beyond Italy.

I don't know if realistically I'll ever prise DH out of his beloved homeland. He has been to England once in the 16 years we've been together and has shown no real inclination to go again.

I try not to think about the possibility I'll die here, it's the most probable future, but freaks me out a bit thinking about it in such permenent terms.

I can't take him out this year, I have to give notice of wanting permission to HE before the end of March to get permission for next year. Since the virtual high school is not accredited by the Italian authorites it counts as home ed and I'll still have to do the end of year inspection exams, get permission, run the social serices guantlet etc.

The only way I could get him put early is by working out how to do a residency dodgy macdodgy while he remains highly visible to the community and the police OR finding a very iffy private school who'll sign him on the roll, mark him present despite him never turning up, in exchange for a large percentage of the usual fees. I have a contact in a high school I tuaght at that did this, I'll give her a ring and see what she knows about the score for middle school. But that could be a very expensive route, costing up to eight grand a year, and I have no idea where I'll find that sort of cash from.

We may just have to grin and bear it this year. But best if DH does the parent/teacher sessions rather than me, and we take a "extract the learning, leave the rest" route with homework or I'll go bonkers.

I'll drop inter high a line in the morning and investigate results, and maybe book DS a try out session to see what he thinks.

Noble you are a star, you've been amazing on..3? threads so far. I wish I could just put DS in your class.

Viva mumsnet and all who post on her, I'd have gone spare if I couldn't have worked through all the ideas and issues without you lot to bounce stuff off and getting so much advice.

that your DH has only been to England once. What about your DS? Do you still have family there?

It's a bit strange that you can't take him out of school at any time. In the UK you'd just have to show you'd made other arrangements. What if he was being horribly bullied? Would he have to stay there all year to meet an artificial deadline? What would happen if you just stopped sending him in? If they fined you would it be less than the private school fees?

I'm just horribly fascinated by how poor the education your son is receiving is. There is loads of educational research out there about how best to teach and yet it all seems to be passing Italy by. Starters and plenaries? Assessment for learning? No, just read out of a textbook for an hour and expect them to memorise it. In maths.

On a completely different note, I'm intrigued about what their maths dictation contained. Was it about Cantor? He was fascinating to be fair (although not set theory, yawn). I often tell my students about how he was completely slated by the mathematical community for his silly ideas about infinity, and there being different types of infinity although he has since been completely vindicated. How infinity drove him mad. And his brilliant method for showing, completely counter-intuitively that there are the as many whole numbers as there are fractions. Did this all get mentioned, or was it a boring list of dates, places and topics?

DS and I go "home" regularly, leaving DH to take care of the zoo (cats, dogs, vampire rabbit), and my sister and BIL come here all the time, for long weekends or during the hols

I think DH would come with us at least for the odd visit if he wasn't so terrified of flying. It was hell the one time he came, trying to manage the needs of a six month old baby and the needs of a man who had to be soothed constantly as he wibbled on the edge of a full blown panic attack from boarding to being out in the open with feet on ground again.

And then the same again for the return jouney. GAK!

If I just took DS out of school I run the risk of criminal charges and/or being put under social services. It could bring a layer of complication and stress to our lives that made school look like a walk in the path.

Searching for court cases connected to parentally supported truancy it appears that a small Italian national and a foreign parent combo ups your chances of the authorities going for a legal approach with social services involvement rather alot. Since they form almost all the reported cases I can find. I just couldn't face that.

The dictation was in two parts, the first an explanation of something that is illegible... "product (or producer?) carteziano/artiziano????" and a bit he is all upset about cos he missed it entirely while trying to catch up the first part by copying his deskmates work, which was about Cantor, Euler and Venn. I'm pretty sure it was the info box I've found in his text book about "maths in history" which is about those three and set theory. So that's ok, we can study That bit.

The first part I'm lost, there is nothing ringing any bells in the text book, so it will be back to telephone ping pong with the other mums to discover what that is all about.

But he has a big test on set theory coming up so I think I will have to prioritise a review of that and just let the dictation test go. Cos out of the two if one test doesn't happen I'm guessing it will be the dictation one.

I think the new post grad training in Italy probably resembles something like you'd see elsewhere. I just don't know if it will be able to break though into actual teaching in the classroom until retirment and other wastage takes the bulk of the teachers produced under the old " non grad, follow me training" out of the front line in the classroom.

I'm sure things will change and new methodologies will start to take centre stage as the norm, but not in time for my son to benefit from it.

Maybe there will be a real change by the time the babies born now are at middle school.

There is a huge push from "post service" academics, (seen some really powerfil conferences speeches on vid) particularly in terms of teaching Italian, to dump the old methods and take up the new. so I suspect the change will start in teaching Italian and then trickle accross to other subjects.

It's just going to take a long time given the stanglehold the old methods have in the staffrooms of today.

Cartesian product would seem to fit.

Yes, I'd be prioritising the maths over the dictation too. The history of Set Theory isn't going to come up on any international maths exams any time soon.

Re: fear of flying - I can totally sympathise with your DH! However, I took action, Paul McKenna's fear of flying hypnotherapy CD saved me from missing out on foreign holidays.

You star, it is cartesian product, I can tell by the refences to tables.

I'll bone up on that today in case it is in the test.

The historic bit about the men behind the maths Is as dry as sawdust, given that from what you said there was a more human and intriguinging side...why can't they set some kind of research priject on that apsect for homework and do the teaching of the tneory at school.

I can cope with projects into people.

I know what people are for a start, which helps lots

I've found another online school that looks interesting,

www.academus.org.uk/

Going to see if they are more forthcoming about thier exam results on the actual site.

I've just called Inter High,

their results are 68% A*-C five GCSEs up from 63% the previous year.

It was a brill call, I had a shed load of questions and got no bluffy, change the subjecty, not really answering the question answers at all.

This is my top choice by a long chalk for a variety of reasons, and we can arrange a lesson soon so DS can experience the software and get a feel for what it is like.

After a weekend blighted by over 11 hours homework (lost the will to keep logging it at that point) in which we still didn't finish everything, am feeling much cheered up by this mornings call.

A school that doesn't mind you asking the names of the people who'll teach you kid !

I've worked out that with additional tutuoring/home ed for Italian lang and lit, Italian history, Italian geog, Spanish, (music and art can be moved over to Sat morning) I can do a school day from 8.45-3.00 with breaks throughout that INLUDES the homework load from both the online school and me

And they are happy to work around the diffiuclty of a British school year clashing with the Italian one that ends early June so he doesn't have to miss the annual summer camp in town.

WCS he'll lose the morning session of summer camp for a single week while he does his annual exams at online school.

It feels very strange all this optimism floating around inside my head.

Even DH isn't pulling a face about online school today, just a slightly bemused one, probably cos he got hit the hardest with this weekend's homework and is slowly, slowly getting as hacked off as I am.

complex fractions

The colon show division, i.e. another fraction
e.g. 3:4 is like 3/4. But there is not space in the book to write everything as a fraction.

My sister and BIL have been roped in on The Endurance Fraction, sis is convinced there is a way to do them in excel that will let him reproduce the evolving "sum" without us getting all tangledup as we go along. Cos excel will do strange things with coloured brackets (allegedly) to help.

Then I guess we just copy it all put longhand on a seperate sheet that can go in his folder, to aviod being shouting at for using something that feeds off electricity.

As soon as BIL has his brand new Mac set up we are going to use facetime for a "really fractions are nice, even when they look scary" lesson/session.

And while they are there they can help with the last clump of science home work. I am stuck on the last question.

A mineral weighs 160g and has a volume of 5cm cubed, what is the ps of the mineral (ps specific wieght in English? ps=P/V), How much will a meter cubed of of the mineral wiegh?

I can do it up to the last bit, do I times the orginal ps value by three? (well it is cubed) Or do I go back to the gramme wieght, and...opps there goes the wood for the trees.

Am dead chuffed I did this one with no help

How much would 120kg person wieght on the moon? Express in newton(s)

I wouldn't know what a newton was if it punched me in the face, but between my "scour the book for a formula" skills and the boy's "dead handy with multiplying and dividing decimals" skills we are invincible(ish)

Yay us

Please don't let there be a test in this density, volume,various wieghts, mass, now mix it all together in word problems horrible stuff. My head will explode.