If you could afford to send your kids to a private school, would you?

[juicychops]

or would you choose for them to go to a 'normal' state school?

just curious what your responses will be

Elaine - I don't really think that 111 bursaries count as a couple of bursaries.

Lollington, interesting re: Millfield. I've noticed that the ex pupils I've met remain incredibly tight afterwards, like an extended family despite some enormous differences in wealth etc. I know a few very well and they are without exception genuine and lovely, they don't give a damn about status etc and know how to get what they want and have an amazingly fun time in the process. Having said that I have to say they are not the most academic. Just a small sample though of course.

Do you think a school generally churns out a certain type? The ethos of the school has such a pervasive influence it shapes the child and then the man or the woman? It seems true for DH and most of his old school friends. They seem to have the same values somehow. The school has had more influence than the family somehow and this wasn't a boarding or prestigious school.

My children were at a small village school. It was lovely until they got to about age 8/9 when the class sizes were just too big to educate them properly. Also i felt my children were bored with such a small environment and it did them a lot of good to move on and out.

Lol cortina the friend I spoke of earlier who can only pull pints to earn a living is an old Millfield pupil!

Her parents sacrificed everything for her education, they lived in a tiny terrace, worked nights etc.

And she pissed it up the wall, got into drugs and dropped out at 16.
And she isn't the only one I know like this ( though from other schools).

You can lead a horse to water and all that.

Cortina - I think your observations on Millfield pupils are spot-on!

My dd is at a private senior school that definitely turns out a type - very well-rounded, down-to-earth girls, not the most sophisticated, but happy and with good academic results. Some people prefer schools with slightly better facilities and more glamorous students (sounds crazy but someone will know what I mean!). She is very very happy there. It suits her.

ElaineReese what you are right to feel aggrieved about is that St Pauls and Winchester are in a very small minority. The vast majority are not as generous with their bursaries or will never become as generous with their bursaries despite grand claims on their websites yet they still retain their charitable status. Most boarding schools are not offering more than a 30% fee reduction if you lucky and with fees currently coming in at £30000 a year its still out of the reach of the vast majority of people.

What I want from private education is the peace of mind to know that dd will have what we think is the best education that we can possibly give her given funds and location. If she ends up being a barmaid it will not be for want of opportunity to do other things

happygardening - the 30% fee reduction is probably the maximum scholarship you can get. Scholarships and bursaries are different. I am no expert but I don't know ANY private schools who don't offer the possibility of huge (90%+) bursaries.

I think i would look at all options (state and private), both my dd's have Autism and its bloody hard to find a school they fit into, if there was a school near by for high functioning Autistic children and it was pritate then 'yes' (if i could afford it they would go). Taking them school each day to a school where they don't fit in, get bullied and don't get the support they need is soul destroying, so if money was no object they would go to the school that best suited them.

chaz that's just under 10% right?

Higher than many, true.

Lollington, I remember coming down to breakfast at my friend's house and meeting the boys, I had to go out of the room on a pretext to collect myself! Eric (despite the unlikely name) and friends were exquisite, charming, generous, gorgeous, working as models in the holidays (and very successful) until something else came up (as you do). I don't think I'd have been able to concentrate on the academics if these were the usual classmates. :)

I am very aware that scholarships and bursaries are different. Most schools write on their websites that they offer bursaries of up to 90% but in my now extensive experience few come up with the goods and most attach the bursary to a scholarship whether it be academic sporting music etc. Win. Coll and St Pauls offer very large bursaries to NON scholars and that is what makes them different. Ok you have to meet their academic criteria but you do not have to be a scholar to get a bursary. In fact the scholars get a small/no financial reward they too have to prove they need a bursary.

Cortina
I have a friend with 4 sons at a boys private school. They are absolutely gorgeous, they stand up when I come in, they (surely feign) interest in everything I say (why they would be interested in a 45 year old woman's daily life I don't know), they are engaging, funny and polite. Some of their friends are breathtaking [cougar]

But see, I don't think that's all that brilliant of them! Their website makes it sound terribly altruistic of them to want to help boys from less wealthy backgrounds to 'become leaders' - but still, excluding anyone who isn't rich and clever with a minority who are clever but not rich is not something I find especially laudable, or am happy to know goes on.

Elaine - I would expect that figure to go up year on year as St Paul's has a stated aim of increasing bursary availability. Perhaps we are differing on the meaning of "a couple of bursaries".

Well 'couple' was perhaps a bit exaggerated as a language choice designed to emphasise the fact of minority. The number given is obviously meaningless unless expressed as a proportion, anyway.

But it's a bit of a dead end as a conversation for me, because you could tell me 75% of children their were on full bursaries (which I'd be surprised to hear, ever, I must say) and I still wouldn't think they were good places!

I dont think it states anywhere on the Win Coll website that the aim of its bursary fund is "to help boys from less wealthy backgrounds to 'become leaders' " in fact their are few old Wykamist politicians. As the head recently said the boys are told to be honest at all times and thus they are unlikely to become politicians!
You cannot open up schools like St Pauls and Win Coll to all, there are only just over 1500 places in total between the two schools but you can open up places to some and this has to be better than not opening them up to any.

Idiots are everywhere...school just a microcosm of whole society, so what's the point of living in the bubble of a private school when the majority of us then have to mix with vastly different adults when we enter the working world?
Not enough good state schools hence ridiculous mass movement of parents to try and get closer to a good state school
Want my daughter to learn within an environment that supports all children and where she will understand that her friends may not all be as privileged as she is now.
A good state school can foster that empathy and understanding in a child whilst giving an excellent education.
Education is also about how children form into balanced adults, not just about academia and moving in the right social circles.
From my own experience (went to very crap primary state school in the 70's and then uber posh all girls' private secondary...had BF for many years who boarded at Shiplake and was typically dysfunctional around women as so many boarding boys are!) no school is perfect- money and status does not always equate with a better eduction either (Shiplake was shite academically at the time- but send your son there and he will more likely mix with the sort of people some people want their kids to mix with...not that it did my exBF any good!).
My girls' school was academically brilliant (City Girls') but a hive of mental bullying and a miserable, unfriendly place for many girls. Friends of mine who went to ordinary state secondaries may have gotten worse grade than mine but had a great time, became very confident young adults and made some lasting friends too. Worth pointing out that most of my friends have gone to state British or foreign secondary schools in London and have all done better in their working life than the few who went private.

Would never send my daughter to private school if there was a state school rivalling it in the same area and would rather move again, to be closer to a great state school than send her private. My parents would pay for her private education and have even offered to, but she will be going to a fantastic local state primary instead, then to Camden Sch for Girls with any luck.
Parents who are interested in their kids' education tend to be the ones who also campaign for better education and drive standards in state schools up.
Nuff said.

ElaineReese I'm genuinely curious why do you not think they are good places? Have you ever been to see them, talked to the boys, met the dons (teachers) spoken to the parents?

Elaine
Again based on Annual Accounts for 2010

www.christs-hospital.org.uk/index.php

A private school where
3% pay full fees
81% pay a proportion assessed on income
16% pay no fees at all

It may not have 75% on full bursaries but it does assist 97% of families with fees.

storminateacup10 "A good state school can foster that empathy and understanding in a child whilst giving an excellent education" do you think that good independent school cant do these things and that the education they provide doesn't show children how to "balanced adults?"

In reply to post 1), c&p - 'The Founding Intention. When William of
Wykeham founded Winchester College in 1382, it
was with the purpose of educating boys to exercise
leadership in society'. This on the bursary page. Bit yucky! I also love the way they phrase it as 'boys whose families took career decisions which now mean school fees are beyond them'. Hmm, yes, shall I earn lots of money or not much? No-brainer!

In reply to 2) I think we are at cross purposes - I don't doubt they're nice places to be, I'm sure that there are lots of happy boys and parents, but that's not what I meant. In a way, my point above is one of the things - that 'made career choices' spin on basically, the state of not being very rich, is a bit dubious and not, in my opinion, the best outlook on life! But what I mean is, I don't think private schools are laudable institutions in the wider sense. I don't think it's a good thing that they exist.

All schools are different, all schools suit different children [shrug]. An academic hothouse of a private school wouldnt suit dd, but neither would a huge comp where you need to push yourself forward to get the full benefit of it. The girls I know from dds private secondary are, in the main, full of empathy and understanding (and dare I say even more so than some of her peers from the local comprehensive who now have a veneer of brittle sophistication which seems a shame at 11/12)

Sorry but PFL you are making such ridiculous sweeping generalistions. Whilst clearly you, your husband and offspring are genii, I find your comments ridiculous, your sweeping statements unsubstantiated and your swearing banile. Your husband employs lots of ex private schools, is a CEO and it appears most of the private school students you encounter are wasters. Well a few words spring to mind generally chip and shoulder.

I am and was incredibly lucky to go to a top girls boarding school and my brothers went to Millfield and Wellington. I have certainly not wasted my education. Whilst an able student I was incredidly naughty and really needed to be sat on. I know I wouldn't have achieved what I have at a state school unfortunately. My husband on the other hand is bright as a button but went to a useless south London comp with a total of zero qualifications (he would argue that a cycling proficiency certificate counts!). Despite all of this he succeeded in life but realises the opportunities he grabbed are simply not available to youngsters nowadays. Even for a basic admin role in his business he looks at a degree as a minimum entry requirement. We have chosen private education but he is more for it than I am. In terms of money it is so hard to quantify and impossible to value. Our children are at academic independents and are wonderfully inquisitive, think laterally and are completely engaged. On paper they will undoudtedley achieve more at the end with their qualifications, more is the shame. Yes they would still to well in a state school but I know not as well. For us all we want to do is provide our children every opportunity in life to perform to the best of their abilities. As an aside the old boys/girls/contacts network doesn't really wash with me and whilst it does exist I would never consider it in choosing a school!