Disappointed by low turnout on strike vote

[gordongrumblebum]

We will now be slated across the popular press.

(30% of teachers vote for strike action.)

The difference between you and me eviltwins is that I know my strengths and limitations. I know my job and I know when not to play amateur psychologist. I am a teacher and a very good one. I am not a social worker.

Obviously you have other desires.

I seem to have been attributed with some comments I have not made on this thread. Please check before making attributions that you have the right poster.

Thank you.

jabed - I'm a teacher too, and a very good one. Part of that is not abandoning a child who has spent two years living in a hell hole and has finally decided that she trusts someone enough to let them call the police and social services in. I sat with her as she talked to them. I did not play "amateur psychologist". I care about the students I teach. I know full well that you teach in a private school, btw, so perhaps you don't have to deal with such issues.

You might be very surprised at what can turn up in a private school eviltwins, especially a boarding school. I have seen occassions where a parent has come to us and asked if their child can be admitted to boarding immediately (because of abuse at home). I have also seen children who have been neglected at home and again have come to us to be relieved of that or a burden of care for an ailing parent.

But you are quite right it is not part of my particular job to deal with those issues. We have staff whose remit that is and they know what they are doing. I do not think that a few hours child protection training gives me either the right or expertise to work with such problems and I consider myself fortunate that it is not a duty thrust on me as it so often is in state schools.

Interesting - it would seem that private school teaching is even more different than I had imagined.

I know which job I would rather do. Surely it isn't the same in primary - there must be some nurturing there?

It isn't thrust on us, jabed - we are often the people children trust most. I wonder why that is? Genuine question.

And I will not be striking on the 30th June either.

As it happens its the last day of term. I do intend being there for the school end of term lunch and knees up and not on strike. I am not sure anyone in my school will be striking.

I have wondered on various occasions why independent school staff may not have their own pension scheme. The current scheme can be split into state and private, if they remain comparable teachers can transfer from one to the other with ease. This would put an end to the feeling that they have the good aspects of the state sector but not the resource scarcity or behavioural and possibly social issues from pupils and parents.

And then there is the whole charitable relief question, which is unlikely to affect good schools that will in any case be patronized by overseas children. Isn't it really all St Cake's anyway? This will relieve schools from offering bursaries unless they need the academic horsepower to help teachers lift overall performance.

Zeolite: teachers in independent schools can choose different pensions schemes if they wish (in fact I think any teacher can opt out of TPS).

And I may have misunderstood your point about charitable status. It cannot just be relinquished. Under the laws governing Uk charities, if you wish to wind up a charity, then there are procedures for disposal of the charity's assets (like the buildings, land equipment etc) which must be done in accordance with the aims of the charity. So if your school is a charity, you have to keep showing that you are providing benefit in line with your stated charitable aims. Bursaries are not the be all and end all in this. (Did any of the mooted legal challenges to the CC's interpretation ever come to pass? Or has this question gone away under the current administration?)

I didn't vote and thus contributed to the low turn out. Nor did anyone in my dept vote. There is no doubt that we are not happy about the proposals for our pension, having had a pay deal imposed of below inflation over the last 4 years in return for our pensions being protected (ha!) - but in the current economic climate I don't see much support for our position.

There is a belief amongst colleagues that having 68yr old teachers in front of a class of 30 teenagers will resolve itself. Burnt out or not able hack the pace & workload, classroom disruption, lowering of results in a climate of exam result pressure, parental complaint = competence procedures, early retirement, paid off to leave. All are hard to do, but there are ways and means.

Most teachers belong to one of the 3 main teaching unions as insurance in a litigious age and as protection from the vagaries of SMT; it does not always follow that you agree with their political stance.

Zeolite / Meditrina
Many private school teachers are members of their local authority pension schemes under the "admitted bodies" rules.
LGPS is a funded scheme (unlike the normal Teachers one) and the employers contributions are around 20% of wages, employees are between 6% and 8%
even with that level, the funds are all running 10-15% deficits (thanks in no small part to the 1980's pension holidays and the twonk Brook abolishing ACT relief)

Kangaroo
later retirement is a stupid idea for teachers - agreed
but the problem arises in other bits of the public sector where retirement is deemed from age 50, employers cough up HUGE amounts for pension contributions and then the employee is free to go get another job.
Private sector taxpayers are out of pocket by millions and millions every year
and actually the pensioners do not even benefit - the banks and pension providers do !

So why not vote 'no' then, Kangaroo?

I suppose because I do believe pensions should to be protected but don't agree with going on strike, so I abstained from voting (along with the majority).

The vote was in fact to encourage the government to negotiate, which is still the unions' aim. If they fail to negotiate then the ballot has resulted in strike action.

You only need to look at the popular press online today to see that most have picked up on the fact that only 30% of union members voted for the strike, about 6% voted against it....

and that 60% or so couldn't give a toss.

How can we expect support from the general public if we can't even support each other?

I do feel guilty, as do my dept colleagues, but am not prepared to strike. I am not advocating my position, just explaining it and maybe giving a reason for the low turn out.

Then you all should have voted no!! The choice was there.

I didnt vote either. I am a member of ATL. I also work in an independent school. As someone said not all teachers are in the TPS or an LGPS. I am in an employers scheme which fortunately for me is still giving good benefits.

So this issue isnt an issue which affects me and one oon which therefore I had no right to vote. Consequently I get stuck with the dilemma of a strike called for which I have no part. That is my explaination of not voting. The upside is I finish work that day ( end of term , no lessons) and I wont have to work so I wont have to strike either.

taklinPeace2: I know! My first comment unthread was a bit mischievous, but no one bit.

The real point is that the comments about TPS not being in deficit are equally naughty. It's unfunded, and so there will never be a deficit in the normal sense. Here's a good briefing note, though I suppose people on this thread will be very familiar with the detail.

Now, remembering that this is all notional anyhow, the 2006 "valuation" showed a shortfall of about £3,000 million. That will have changed a lot, as many of the "notional investments" value would have fallen sharply, and assumptions on inflation have not been met - even with the public sector wide change from RPI to CPI change, this is a big issue.

The contribution actually deducted from salary is made up of SCR and supplementary contribution - the latter has already been accepted as both variable and being subject to Actuarial assessment of whether the scheme will generate enough contributions to cover future liabilities.

Could I ask:
a) has anyone a more recent "valuation"?
b) given comments on other threads that "this isn't the deal signed up to", but as the Supplementary contribution is a long-standing part of it, does this mean that there is a problem with the validity of current actuarial predictions? (If so can anyone link? Thanks)

Actuarial Valuations of pension fund liabilities are one of the greatest of Dark Arts.
I've had chats with fund managers for county LGPS schemes and they have to make assumptions about life expectancy of different groups of members which - if ever they were fully public - would cause every Daily Mail reader to blow a gasket.
Lets just say that the obesity epidemic will have an impact on pension payouts ....
The big problem with all the funded and unfunded schemes is the fact that when pensions were invented, longevity was expected to be 5-10 years after retirement.
So the Unions fought in the 1970's to allow early retirement
at the same time as life expectancy grew
the outcome is pretty clear.

Unless we bite the bullet now, the children you teach will have NO PENSION AT ALL. Can you honestly stand at the front of the class and tell them that?

Arg! SO many people don't seem to realise that not voting is tantamount to voting 'yes'. If you didn't want to strike, you should have voted 'no'!

I didn't vote and I won't be striking.

'But you are quite right it is not part of my particular job to deal with those issues'

Looking after children in trouble is EVERYONE's job. I would not turn a child in the street who came to me in trouble because it was 'not my job' and haven't when this has happened to me.

What a truly hideous, hideous, hideous attitude.

'Interesting - it would seem that private school teaching is even more different than I had imagined.'

No, Feenie, you have to understand that Jabed is one of a kind in a school that is one of a kind. Good practise in caring for children over the last few decades seem to have passed him and it by.

My dcs' private school and all the other private schools I've had experience of are nothing like Jabed's fortunately. In fact, the teachers go out of their way to ensure that children are cared for to the very best of their ability whatever that might mean.

I've been shaking my head in disbelief ever since! Thanks for the clarification, Fivecandles.

Just because people are living longer does NOT necessarily mean they can work longer in front line jobs.
Instead of pushing through policies based on the pure economics of what's paid in vs. what's paid out, the government should be taking time to look really seriously at this really serious issue. Demographic change is probably our biggest challenge going forward as a country.
We need to fundamentally look at jobs like teaching and work out if there is a way to 'retire' from the front line without retiring entirely and still make a valuable and worthwhile contribution. If we don't do this we'll be forcing a whole generation of professionals into sick absence and disciplinary in their 60s followed by shameful slinking away rather than waved off with a 'thank you' for a job well done and heads held high. And it'll be the students of the old and breaking down teachers who suffer alongside the teaching profession.