Disappointed by low turnout on strike vote

[gordongrumblebum]

We will now be slated across the popular press.

(30% of teachers vote for strike action.)

Just because lots of teachers are training it does not follow that the future of British education is safe. Are they the correct trainees? Do they have passion, an ability to enthuse and motivate, do they have an excellent academic background. To get the best you often need to offer something. Even if you have trainees will they stay the course?

I agree generally, train fewer teachers but up the standards and be more selective.

They have passed the course so I hope they have all of the above, if they dont, dont train them, train less better ones.

There are 80+ applications for each post, and hundreds are being churned out every year. Recession. We'll be fine.

I can confirm that the ATL sent out many reminders ( I am a member of the ATL).

I did not vote. I do not wish to strike. I do not think it will be effective.
What might be more effective is a withdrawal of extra time.

However, I am aware a lot of teachers are more worried about their job security right now with public sector cutbacks and redundancies and private sector being borderline I am told.

Pensions are important to those who have them ( it doesnt actually affect me as it happens - and suddenly I am very glad I went for my employers scheme rather than the TPS, not that my pension amounts to much).

Fortunately for me (being a selfish b*stard, who doesnt want to do anything to the detriment of my students) it looks very much as if the strike will be at the very end of our term and so I should be in a position to not have to do anything. Thank God for small mercies on this one.

Surely the low turnout reflects the fact that so many many teachers don't want to vote for a strike? How can teachers even be consdiering it now?

I'm very surprised that the press have not mentioned the low turn out and have instead gone for the "government in crisis" angle. That gives victory to the unions surely? I anticipat,e a coalition backlash with much mentioning of the turnout today!

jabed - the withdrawal of extra time affected me personally when teachers did it back in the 80's. I've never forgotten the disappointment of our school play being cancelled after we'd worked for months.

I NEVER blamed Margaret Thatcher/The Tory Government of the Day, solely the teachers and even as I grew older and more interested in politics, my view did not change. Unless most people think differently to me, then this course of action won't win the public over either.

Hello Lady - not sure what your problem is with me. Are you a teacher? IS it OK to call me a bitch because I don't agree with your colleague's immature comments?

OK - first, suspect I skimmed ET's posts and possibly saw 8 rather than 18 so maybe not all day.. mistake! meh!

the essence of ET's postings yesterday & today are

1. someone makes dim comment. ET says bollocks. Big whinge about teacher bashing

2. ET brings same exaggerated comment to new thread. Adds new whinges "Slated on MN too, of course. Apparently, we're selfish bastards who are out of touch with reality..."

3)I have a skim, see whinge at 2 which frankly jumps out at me as the only whinging on the thread by any teacher, and comment - though not using 'bollocks' (I'll remember for next time - ET can use Bollocks & Piss off, but the rest of us mustn't say Grow Up )

4. at which point, in the light of the Whinging, Bollocks & Piss Off stuff, which none of the other teachers have come up with, sticking to facts only as far as I can see - I state that a) she is an embarassment to the cause b)probably an embarassment to her colleagues & employer as well - can't think many parents would want the likes of you coming anywhere near their DC

5. ET is utterly enraged

6. we get Piss Off again from ET, and an accusation that I am a bad parent.

7)and the usual cv style justification about how 'brilliant' she is - 'doing wonderful things with disadvantaged kids'. Which happened the last time I dared to say anything less than adulatory to a certain teacher on MN. In fact it was so bizarre it happened again, I would almost think it was the same person. No matter.

8. and a new thread from ET which starts like this: "Add message | Report | Message poster EvilTwins Tue 14-Jun-11 23:23:15 ...on any given Education related thread, it is deemed acceptable for someone, at some point, to post something along the lines of

"I'm glad you're not my DC's teacher. I bet you're crap at your job" or "You're an embarrassment to your profession" or "You shouldn't be allowed to teach children".

I really riles me . No one says it about any other profession."

Conclusion: I think I'm sticking with "Grow Up" for ET. And all the other teachers (actually a minute proportion of the total) who think it's ok to abuse and swear at non teachers if they are not immediately 100% supportive and adulatory.
Yes you are an embarassment to the rest of your profession.
No you are not helping your cause.
No, I would not want my DC in your class.

And the more you insult me and others who think the same, the less support I will have for you. It's not difficult.

I'll listen to the arguments, not the whining and abuse.

diabolo, I wasnt really thinking of withdrawal of anything affecting children. There are many tasks I do in " extra time" which would affect the school and more importantly the government which could be used.

For example, I am currently on a stupid paper chase. I am filing in forms to tick boxes for OFSTED and for SEF and for performance management ( MBO targets). I think we should refuse to do that. I think we should refuse to do the statisitical analysis and return league table results. Refuse to complete MBO targets etc.

None of those would affect the children but they would sure as hell give the hump to employers.

Of course some teachers may wish to work entirely to contract. I think they do have that right regardless. After all as you said, you will blame the teachers anyway ( why do you think you have the right to demand their extra time anyway? Do I have the right to demand yours in the same way?)

cat Have a

And maybe take a bit of your own advice. Watching me? Jeez - grow up.

jabed - you raise a good point about what tasks could be withdrawn in your "extra-time".

I don't think I have a right to demand your extra time. And yes, (as I gather you are a teacher and I am a school administrator) you (i.e. teachers and pupils) do demand my extra time, during all the unpaid hours I work every month in order to do my job to the best of my ability and for the benefit of the pupils where I work.

Where do you get your 30% figure from in your OP, Gordon?

Catinthehat, you can get help for stalking, you know.....

Sorry to drone on jabed - but if I worked to my contract, (which I and teachers are perfectly entitled to do), that would mean me leaving a boy with a broken collar-bone, alone in the First Aid room, awaiting his parents and an ambulance, simply because it's 2pm and my hours are up?

Or the First Aid bags you need for your trip the next day, not ready, "cos... well I've worked my hours haven't I?"

Or walking out of a Safeguarding meeting involving sibling incest, because I've done my 25 hours this week thank you very much.

I don't think I'd last another week if I did those things, and rightly so. I wish we lived in a fairer world, but my conscience would never let me do the things I mention above, no matter how pissed off I was with the idea of pension reform.

83% yes vote of only 38% of total members.

jabed I'm very surprised that the press have not mentioned the low turn out and have instead gone for the "government in crisis" angle. That gives victory to the unions surely? I anticipat,e a coalition backlash with much mentioning of the turnout today!

Here you go, for the Telegraph:
Mr Maude pointed out that the teachers' ballot had a "very low turnout".

Some Conservatives, led by Boris Johnson, the mayor of London, have called for a change in the law to require a minimum threshold of union members to back a strike before it would be legal.

diablo,
I am a teacher however, you are incorrect in the assumption that I ( or indeed any of my colleagues where I work) would take one minute or expect even one extra minute of your uncontracted time. We do not work that way in my school.
If you are not in that position then mayb e you need to look at changing jobs and get an employer who is more reasonable?

As for you having to leave a boy with a broken collar bone. Again that would not happen where I work. We have medical staff on site. If one member of the medical team comes to the end of their shift they will be relieved by another member of the same team , so no need for extra time there.

Similarly safeguarding meetings are timed so that those involved would be within contract time.

What I am syggesting is refusing to follow the paper chase, not causing detriment to others.

But the point remains I would not and do not take any time from administraters that is not within their contract hours and would never dream of doing so. I accept some teachers ( and some administrators) cannot see the division though.

Jabed, it's not as simple as that though, is it. I was involved, recently, in a dreadful case with a girl at my school (I am now her head of year, but wasn't at the time - I just happened to be a teacher she trusted) where she disclosed that her father had beaten her. I stayed with her whilst the police and SS came in to speak to her. This went well beyond the end of the school day - SS could not drop everything to come to us, we had to wait. I had to make arrangements for a friend to pick up my own DC from their school. Working to contract just isn't possible in certain circumstances. I would suggest a teacher/member of school staff who could walk out on a distressed/injured child is not in the right job.

jabed smallish school, most other First Aiders are teachers. Sometimes there is only 1 First Aider available without the need to organise cover etc etc.

I won't be looking for another job 'cos I love it. Have done for years and have just taken on the Dep Safeguarding role. We do plan meetings within contracted hours, but these can sometimes go on and on and on ..... (3 and a half hours for the one today, scheduled to last 2 hours).

I would love to see the "paper chasing" you refer to abolished, or significantly cut to say the least.

There are some fabulous, inspirational and massively dedicated teachers where I work. They do work until 7 or 8pm when they have to. They deserve a good salary and all that goes with it.

Sadly, there are those who don't pull their weight. Our new Head is attempting to deal with it as I speak. The ones I see who are not as dedicated as others, tend to be very heavily involved in their respective unions. I wonder if there is a correlation?

EvilTwins, I think that is the difference between your school and mine. I have said this before, teaching staff are precisely that - well paid professionals who teach.

Pastoral staff would take care of a child in the situation you suggest. No teaching staff would be involved. If it came to waiting with a child after school hours then that would fall to a house mistress or master or a school nurse, both of whom are allocated after school hours in contract and are thus paid for that time and will often receive time off to make up for any deemed lost.

I cannot imagine putting in a claim for time owed due to have to deal with a child disclosing abuse. We have pastoral staff but they are all teachers on reduced timetables.

twinkly similarly, I would never put in a claim for 20 minutes overtime for dealing with an injured child. You see a job through to it's end?

Some staff at my school put in claim forms for 10 minutes if they have to take registration for an absent teacher. I know they are entitled to do so, but I don't think that makes it right.

twinkly - where did I suggest anyone had to put in a claimof some kind?

Where I work staff are treated as professionals. You do not account for all your minutes and have to say what you were doing. So , if someone perhaps was in A&E with a student for example ( and this would be house staff or a nurse, not a member of academic staff) she / he would accrie time and when she/ he wanted to take that would say to a management member " I wish to take a half day (whatever) on ( daye) and cover would be provided. No one has to fill in time sheets. WE trust each other.

Good point Meditrina. The Universities Superannuation Scheme is run seperately I think and if you need somebody to run it, I will do it.

jabed - the child in question has suffered for years. Her mother died in suspicious circumstances, her father was implicated. She has been subjected to ill treatment for a long time, but wouldn't make a disclosure because she was scared of what might happen. She came to me as we have built up a certain amount of trust over the last two years. I would never suggest that she might like to speak to someone else about it as I am a professional who is paid to teach, not to deal with such issues. Perhaps it's not a case of the difference between your school and mine, but the difference between you and me.

By the way, you have "medical staff". We have a school nurse. She's been made redundant.

Turnout %age at General Elections
www.ukpolitical.info/Turnout45.htm
Turnout %age at EU elections
www.ukpolitical.info/european-parliament-election-turnout.htm
Turnout at By-elections
www.ukpolitical.info/by-election-turnout.htm
Cannot right now find national data on Council elections, but here is London Mayor
www.londonelects.org.uk/results/mayoral_results.html
All of a sudden 30 - 35% turnout does not look so bad

BUT
I think the public sector workers are utterly wrong to strike.
Since the erosion in private sector wages since 2007, public sector pay and conditions outstrip those of the private sector so comprehensively that you will get little or no sympathy.
Private bin men, carers, office staff and teachers all get less (once defined benefit pension and leave entitlements are taken into account) than their state funded colleagues.
Be careful what you wish for. You might just get it.