Teachers, how are things as regards cuts?

[fivecandles]

If you teach, how are you being affected by the cuts? Have there been any reduncies at your school and if so on what basis? It's starting to hit my place of work now and it's rubbish. No redundancies yet but it's generally expected to happen at the end of next year unless people leave which they can't because there are no jobs anywhere else either.

How can you give the child with ADHD sufficient support? IME all ADHD children are disruptive. Ad how are you supporting the EAL child with just you and 23 other children?
What is a 'vast range of ability' in your experience?

I didn't pluck 40 out of the ether; I think 30-40 are typical state sector class sizes. So when you disagree with most of the teachers on here about the value of TA support, it could be down to very different environments you are required to cope with. I don't know how many teaching hours 80% of lesson times is for you.... 4 hours of lessons a day? How does that compare to state secondary standards? High School Maths teacher at DS's indie school works a 4 day week, I think 5x45min. lessons/day. And his biggest class size can't be more than 16 (limit of room size). A lot of the teachers at that school are part-time.

I did have lecture halls of 800 students at University, but we also had 2 hours or so with just 15-20 people or so per one tutor to supplement those massive lectures. And of course, we were paying ourselves thru the nose for the privilege (USA, no grant system), so we weren't likely to misbehave (too badly ).

Mmeb sounds like a Tory plant. One that needs pruning.

There are 40 in state school classes? Things are worse than I thought.

I teach for 4.25 hours per day, on average. I think this is similar to state schools these days.

Mme Blueberry my (overseas, private) school sounds very much like yours, run along the same lines.

However, I am not closed minded enough to think that the way my school does things is the only way things should be done

Cheaper to employ a TA than have 2 classes

I don't think 30-40 are typical state sector class sizes. DS1, Y7 has 26,and DS2, Y3 has 25.

DS and DD's school will have next year (assuming no movement before September)

Two mixed YR/Y1 classes of 30 each
Y2 29
Y3 35
Y4 34
Two Y5 classes of 24 and 25
Y6 about 33 I think

Have just had letter about class organisation for next year and there will be one fewer class but overall approximately rhe same number of pupils.

"Mme Blueberry, your response to the question in my OP has been along the lines of No, the cuts are not affecting me but I'm really glad they're affecting the rest of you, it's just tough isn't it and it's all the fault of the previous government. This is crass, stupid and offensive. You've chased off the people that I intended this thread for and now I've had enough too. Pleased with yourself?"

Your paraphrasing is , to say the least fivecandles, ivery slack.
I have re read the thread. I cant see the fuss unless someone has hidden a load of posts. All mmeblueberry said was that state schools had seen considerable expansion through the 1990's and as a result of the recession , it was now cut back time. ( thats my paraphrase by the way - her ? I guess this is a lady? woring was far less direct amd quite polite. Certainly not offensive.

However, there is truth in what she said. I working in state schools and found massive increases in TA support. We had more TA's than teachers in one school. Of course all this came with inclusion policies and expansions of ECM and such .

It remains the case though at all times that when the crunch comes something has to go. It isnt the first time in state education teachers have been hit like this. I have been through two such rounds since I started teaching back in the late 1980's .

I agree its devestating for the teachers made redundant. I am certainly not going to play down its effects. Emotionally and psychologically, even if financially cushioned ( although many are not) it is devestating. I can recall colleagues made redundant and being completely lost. I also recall some of their colleagues , younger ones, were less than kind then.

I have been there twice myself. In the first instance it was always older staff who were pensioned off before younger ones were hit.

In my last school which had a round of redundancies just before this recession a similar process took place. They lost five highly experienced staff. I lost my job, although not counted in the redundancy programme as I got another job and jumped ship...... and of course I walked into pay freeze and rumour of redundancy again in the private sector. But as Mmeblueberry said, it happens. It happens because of the boom and bust expansion and cut back of budgets in state school. That is outrageous.

The upside I suppose is that it gives you a perspective and you tend not to be quite so attached to work, realising that you need to have a life outside too for balance

I don't think that 40 is standard number for a state school. I've been teaching in state secondaries for 13 years and have never had more than 34.

Nevertheless, the current round of cuts has hit my school hard, and I think we're going to find it difficult in September. Not just in terms of TAs, but in terms of admin staff too. It's been a difficult place to work this term - lots of people for whom I have great respect and affection are leaving because of this, and it's sad. I suspect that the likes of MmeBlue and Jabed take for granted a lot of the "behind the scenes" people at their schools, and would certainly notice if they weren't there any more. We've lost cleaners and lunchtime supervisors too - all of this has a knock-on effect to the running of the school and the wellbeing of the students.

The rest of the discussion seems to have been about the relative matters of whether teachers should be allowed to use the photocopier( my paraphrase again)

I suspect that the likes of MmeBlue and Jabed take for granted a lot of the "behind the scenes" people at their schools, and would certainly notice if they weren't there any more. We've lost cleaners and lunchtime supervisors too - all of this has a knock-on effect to the running of the school and the wellbeing of the students.

I cannot speak for mmeblueberry obviously but it is not true to say I do not miss behind the scenes staff as you call them. In many independent school there are very few such staff and so everyone of them is a familiar face which is missed when it disappears. That is in the nature of working in a staff ( admin groundstaff and teachers) which is a team.

Two of the independent schools near to my state schools employ a wardrobe mistress to deal with costumes for plays. Both a very pleasant ladies- one even let us borrow costumes free of charge this year (the other charges). Hardly essential staff though, eh? I don't believe that the majority of independent schools only have a small number of non-teaching staff. State schools don't tend to employ organists or wardrobe mistresses.

If the lady is employed then one assumes she earns her keep. Independent schools do not pay staff without cause. Personally I have never worked in a school with a wardrobe mistress ( not sure my current place even has a wardrobe for dram and school plays even).

Organists, Chaplains ( whp work for the school not the church down the road) certainly we have but they are worthy of their hire. We also have house masters and mistresses and a librarian and three maintenence /groundstaff ( and we still have grounds and playing fields) But hardly over inflated with bods.

Jabed, it's not much of a surprise to me that you're struggling to see what all the fuss is about given your own attitudes to education and to inclusive education in particular so I'll explain very clearly.

People have taken offense to the way MmeBlue's has glibly dismissed the fact that people are losing their jobs as a good 'pruning' and, in fact, a quite posiitve thing. It's bad enough to treat any redundancies in such a flippant way but especially when being discussed are theTAs who are employed to support the most vulnerable children and help ensure that good teaching and learning takes place for all the children in the classroom.

Like you, MmeBlue struggles to see what the fuss is about partly because she lacks the qualities of empathy and compassion but also because at least initially she is only able to associate the role of TAs with photocopying showing very little awareness of what TAs actually do. Like you, MmeBlue works in an indepedent school with small class sizes yet feels able to make assumptions about what life is like for thos who work in state schools.

I can only continue to wonder what you two are doing on this thread when you're actually not experiencing cuts yourself if not to gloat and be unpleasant to those who are.

jabed - did you mean 'organists and chaplains'....like, several of each?

...or was it a typo?

Interestingly I work in a London borough where lots of primaries are growing, many are taking one extra form either on a one year or permanent basis. Some will become some of the biggest primaries in england, others are expanding resource rooms into classes. The cuts have had a different impact on us, a massive influx of families from central London in response to changes in housing benefit and an increase in the rental market here. Quite a lot of jobs to be had.

All organisations go through periods of growth and cutbacks. It is a normal part of a business cycle. Schools are no different.

An awful lot of businesses are having to cut back to the bare bones. Where is your sympathy then? This means that the key employees of the business take on more duties and work a bit harder. The key employees in schools are the teaching staff. Everyone else - support staff and management - are under more scrutiny and their job functions are analysed from every possible direction.

Plural. We have two organists and two Chaplains. One ordained in Holy Orders, and one lay preacher. Both employed as Chaplains though. We are big on music recitals. It brings in money for the school.

With respect jabed I would rather funds were spent employing staff to teach or support the children than pay for an organist or chaplain who presumably could be found in the local community free?

FGS, Blueberry, keep up. Schools are not businesses. Making teachers and TAs redundant cannot be compared to anything that's happening in the business world. In fact, it's very different.

Nobody has said they have no sympathy for people losing jobs in business but that does not happen to be the subject of this particular thread. It's a thread under 'Education' and its addressing teachers.

I can only continue to wonder what you two are doing on this thread when you're actually not experiencing cuts yourself if not to gloat and be unpleasant to those who are.

Editing again fivecandles. I did say I had indeed been affected by cuts in the state sector on previous occasions and the recession this time has had less effect on me because I am working in the independent sector and we havent been as badly hit, largely because of the prudence of the management and governors who acted BEFORE any need arose to make such swinging cuts by tightening in belts and getting us through. The predicted fall in rolls didnt happen and we are financially healthy and have even started to make the odd new appointement this year.

But as I said quite clearly, I know what it is like for others. I have seen it and experienced it. One thing that struck me really hard back when I was one of those affected was a significant lack of emplathy from many other staff - not just toward myself but to many others too. I have never reacted that way. I think that justifies me in having a say here.

The fact is, as I was told when it was my job on the line, cuts have to be made and decisions are painful.

One consequence of the cuts is that I'm not allowed to buy any books for next year. We've been told that eventually we may have to start charging for books which is going to be a real problem since students are losing their EMA at the same time.

Schools are businesses fivecandles. That is something you do not seem to realise. Even in the public sector you have to be accountable and run a budget , just like any other business. It doesnt have to run at a profit necessarily, but it has to be efficient. Independent schools do not necessarily run at profit ( thats why they often have charitable status.) but they are still accountable.