Teachers - are you voting yes for strike action

[sandgrounder]

Went to NUT meeting at school yesterday re pension reform. Cannot see myself teaching until 68 and who wants their kids taught by oldies not wanting to be there.

I really don't think an "I work harder than you" I debate is helpful here. Many teachers these days had other careers before coming into teaching and in my private sector days the culture was very much to come in early and work late until the job is done. I also had a company car, private health cover and a non contributory final salary pension scheme.

I doubt if there are too many of these perks around any more but the pension scheme is the only perk teaching has. It has already been reformed to reflect changing times and new entrants from 2007 now have a retirement age of 65.

However the proposals to change the scheme are unfair. I currently pay £210 per month towards my pension and with the increased contribution will be c£300 per month. This I accept, along with the pay freeze etc. but the forced retirement age to 68 and paying more and getting less out is a change to my terms of employment without any consultation.

I do not necessarily want to retire at 60 but an older workforce forced to stay in their jobs until 68 will not be fair on them or the children they teach. Love my job but 68 will I refrain from saying out loud the words in my head when a year 9 boy tells me to f off!

Nobody thinks teachers are overpaid or have made a comment that their salaries should be reduced. The issue is with the pension system. I would rather salaries increased and pensions reduced. It is the system that is an issue.

Very patronising to shop workers and warehouse managers though. Not everybody is academic enough to be a teacher and not every child a teacher teaches will have the opportunity to go to university to train to become a teacher.

Do you then propose an increase in salaries for the armed forces who risk their lives for our kids futures? One of the most important jobs in the country IMO and one of the most poorly paid. They always seem to get the raw end of the deal and are not allowed to strike.

But everyone who thinks that we should just accept the change in pension IS advocating that we get a pay cut. I will be getting a 3% cut in pay as that is the increase in my employees contribution to the pension scheme.

Now personally I think that probably has to happen. But don't say people aren't advocating that our salaries should be reduced Bitsyandbetty - because that is exactly what is happening.

bitsy the armed forces have just been given extra £000s for going on tour to war-zones.
'21.5.11 The Operational Allowance has also been doubled to £5,281 for those on a six-month tour.'

Also:
All soldiers who serve for eight years are eligible for a single payment of £15,000.
There are several schemes aimed at helping soldiers buy their own home. (182 days? pay, up to the value of £8500)
Regular soldiers joining certain roles, the Army offers a 'golden hello' between £1250 and £6000.

Mind you, not a job I would do, or like any of my family to do, but they do have earning incentives.

They also have quite a high starting salary (aroung £18k for non-graduates) and the potential for much higher earnings.

Maybe some teachers have had it good for far too long but i don't believe FE teachers have. I have worked in FE for a few years - and abroad and other places too - and really enjoy it but the pay is dreadful and we have had pay freezes for two years already where i work.

I would not go on strike though as it is the students that suffer.

Did you consider that you were having pay rises over the previous 15 years when pensions were becoming more and more expensive and employer contributions have been increasing throughout this period? If you use the same basis for remuneration teachers have effectively been having much higher than average salary increases throughout this period. I have personally seen the way employee contributions have increased every time there is a valuation.

I am sorry but I still think the NUT drive for a strike based on a leaked treasury report, which makes no mention of the age of 68 in the Guardian is ill-advised in the current economic climate. There is no evidence that this is the final proposals of the Govt.

The number of graduates wanting to go in to teaching is increasing as the number of jobs for graduates is declining overall. (There are just more graduates). If the Govt is going to change pensions, the cynic in me would say that now is the perfect time to do it and get public support on their side. Rather than striking, the NUT should be coming up with viable and financial solutions to the pensions issue and agreeing not to strike in return for a joint working party to look over the figures and to come up with a solution that covers current and future generations.

bitsy....the NUT should be coming up with viable and financial solutions to the pensions issue and agreeing not to strike in return for a joint working party to look over the figures and to come up with a solution that covers current and future generations.....

That is what the strike ballot is all about.....THE RIGHT TO NEGOTIATE.

Well I fail to see where the NUT have proved that the Govt is not negotiating and the powerprint presentation from the NUT is scaremongering by asking the question about working to 68 without any justification from the leaked document. The Govt have not actually released a proposal yet. The early action of the NUT based on this will just give the Govt more clout.

If you still want to lose a day's pay over some poorly worded NUT presentation go ahead but it would appear their calculator is based on the leaked document in the Guardian. Very trustworthy!

There is NO WAY I want to or could physically teach until I am 68. NO WAY. I;m in a good school. Shudder for those in the hellish roughest inner-city schools.

No way you can physically teach at 68? Whyever not, presuming you are more or less able bodied?

A survey has shown that two-thirds of workers in primary school and early years have received treatment for back and joint problems as a result of working in child-sized environments.

The prevalence and impact of voice problems in primary school teacher occmed.oxfordjournals.org/content/58/1/74.full

Nobody is denying that some teachers will be able and willing to teach at 68 and good luck to them but it is ridiculous to argue that forcing teachers to remain teaching until they are 68 is a good thing. Teaching is exhausing in every way. There will not be many who will have the mental agility, psychological and physical strength, enthusiasm and willingness to adapt to new approaches and technologies at that age. And they will be resentful and tired. They will not be the best teachers for your kids and they will be blocking the way for new entrants to the profession.

As I understand it the NUT IS negotiating. The strike is planned for the 30th June AFTER the negotiations so there's still the potential to call it off if a compromise is reached.

Most teachers are ready to retire at 65 and many well before this date. I am so used to seeing them in the staffroom counting off the days. And after devoting a lifetime to public service they DESERVE a long and happy retirement. BTW, I'm not arguing they have this right over and above any other group of workers. I think everyone should have the right to retire at 65 if they choose to.

And, as I keep saying, it isn't just the NUT!

I've had an email from the ATL re ballot

Heavens! We are stuck between a rock and a hard place. The pension scheme was in profit for YEARS - and the government used the money to fund other things (ie subsidise tax payers).

Now it is not in profit - and I know that many people in the private sector are struggling. But it does seem inequitable just to ignore that fact that for years the government just spent the pension money.....

I do not think a strike will help...... but we need to send the unions to the negotiating table with a strong hand. What can we do if we DON'T strike? A work to rule would have limited effect now, as T&C's tie down both sides much more, and rely less on goodwill.

But I don't want the students to suffer - I know that the strikes will avoid the exams, but in some settings (like mine), the students really struggle with change in routine.

(Can you tell that I don't know which way to vote?)

I can just about inagine working til 60 or 62, especially if I have sixth form and willing workers, but six years beyond that, and, for some, in challenging schools? No way. I too never sit down in class, unless they are doing a test, and a frequent decision amongst our staff seems to be whether to go to the loo or do another pressing task, and the task usually wins. I don't know any teachers who are not stressed and overworked. You really would not want most of us, aged 68, teaching your children.

Oh boy, this fence is painful!

Oh yes a strike, excellent plan. Teachers go on strike, the children stay at home, parents stay at home to look after them and businesses suffer losses so they lay off staff and we have a surge in unemployment, a drop in GDP and Britain is in recession if not depression.

Haven't decided. The thought of teaching until 68 is too horrific to contemplate...

Cain

I don't want to strike. I do want to support the union negotiators as the government are proposing breaking their contract with teachers. What do you suggest I do?

Interesting Cain your argument seems to indicate teachers play a valuable role in the economy of the country ...
you also seem to be suggesting teachers are there to look after your children so you can go to work ... wrong!

I don't think you are there to care for my child I think that you are there to teach my child and I respect that .This teaching takes place at a regular time for a previously agreed amount of time in an agreed place.Of course it would be lovely if all parents then sat outside school doing nothing just in case for any reason that arrangement should change,but in fact most don't because they work to generate taxes to pay for their childs schooling,medical care,and other services which as a society we have decided we need .I fully accept that sometimes that arrangement will change becasue of unforeseen cicumstances however that will necessitate me making alternative arrangements which will probably mean taking a days holiday and to claim otherwise is naive.This is the way the world works,it is like a jigsaw puzzle and lots of things work becasue they are dependent on other things