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Original poster

Teachers - are you voting yes for strike action

681 replies

sandgrounder · 18/05/2011 18:16

Went to NUT meeting at school yesterday re pension reform. Cannot see myself teaching until 68 and who wants their kids taught by oldies not wanting to be there.

OP posts:
rainbowinthesky · 21/05/2011 10:07

The teachers at my school expressed a wish to follow work to rule instead of striking. However, this would have ended up having far more of an impact on the pupils than a strike so we decided against it.

mrswoodentop · 21/05/2011 10:07

None of the parents I know who are teachers with school aged children use childminders,coincidentally my sons three best friends are teachers children the parents themselves have told me that they regard the fact that they don't have to pay for holiday care as a big reason to stay teaching.

The point is that the TPS may be self sustaining now but if these changes are not brought in it will fairly soon become non self sustaining and will then have to be subsidised by the taxpayer

TheFlyingOnion · 21/05/2011 10:10

Funny you should mention trainee lawyers - that's what I did before I became a teacher. 8.30am to 6.30pm was a short day, I worked overnight at my desk, regular 5am trains to meetings, very high stress job, lunchtimes non-existent and never a word of thanks from anyone. Its expected that you work like a slave and that you enjoy it.

I earn substantially more as an NQT than as a trainee lawyer, although I'm not in the state sector so its more...

Teaching is shorter hours, longer holidays and less stress. No doubt about it. Yes the money is less but if you want to earn 80k a year go and become a lawyer and sign your life away....

rainbowinthesky · 21/05/2011 10:10

I assume then they are lucky enough to have breakfast clubs and after school clubs that start early and finish late?
Certainly I've never known a teacher being able to use these in their dcs school. I know I cant as the hours arent long enough. Hence all the teachers I know (probably more than you! Wink ) use childminders and all have to pay for holidays (as I do).

bitsyandbetty · 21/05/2011 10:14

I know many teachers (seconday) who are always there to pick up their kids from primary school as it finishes slightly after except when there is a meeting when they use the after school club. Primary school teachers (I know at least 4) use after school and before school clubs so they have no holiday costs. I know they work when they get home just as many other professions do who supposedly finish at 5.30.

bitsyandbetty · 21/05/2011 10:15

Many teachers I know with children see school holidays as a perk of the job.

rainbowinthesky · 21/05/2011 10:18

They must be very lucky. I've never picked up my dc from school, ever.

bitsyandbetty · 21/05/2011 10:19

That is unfortunate Rainbow.

mrz · 21/05/2011 10:22

I never picked mine up either rainbow or attended sport's day/nativities etc and had to take my daughter with me when we had residential visits during school holidays

bitsyandbetty · 21/05/2011 10:26

Perhaps this thread should have just stuck to the pension issue rather than into a competition as to how long people work. (my fault as well). Your unions will need to work on PR though because I do believe it could really backfire with the general public. Future changes could then become much more pallitable to the Govt if they know they have public support.

bitsyandbetty · 21/05/2011 10:31

I think the unions are being very short-signted about this. Generally people understand strikes about working conditions and poor discipline but a strike over pensions, that many members of the public simply do not have could cause a big backlash and would reduce the impact of unions in the future.

Feenie · 21/05/2011 10:32

TheFlyingOnion - the more you post, the more you horrify me. What kind of an NQT works the kind of hours you post about? And what do you mean, you don't work holidays? very high stress job, lunchtimes non-existent and never a word of thanks from anyone - yes, that's a close description of teaching - except that's not what you're describing! What teaching job do you have that gives you a lunch hour, fgs? I have never known an NQT boast about "shorter hours, longer holidays and less stress" - the shorter hours and less stress are literally unbelievable.

I am another teacher who has to use a childminder in the termtime and pay them for the holidays.

rainbowinthesky · 21/05/2011 10:32

It's unlikely I'll strike anyway as I am Naswut who arent intending to at the moment.

bitsyandbetty · 21/05/2011 10:50

The NASWUT are being more sensible. According to my friend, the NUT are too militant for most teachers and have a poor reputation.

The car workers were encouraged to strike over more pay and better pensions and it cost them jobs. For me I would rather be working and not have a pension, than not working at all, even if this means I have to work until 75.

rainbowinthesky · 21/05/2011 10:53

The NUT is the biggest union so cant be that unpopular.

Feenie · 21/05/2011 10:56

It isn't just the NUT though - unions working with them include the famously non-militant ATL, NAHT who haven't been on strike in over a hundred years on existence, UCU (university and FE teachers, who have already been on strike over this issue) and ASCL (another HT union).

mrz · 21/05/2011 11:01

Over 35,000 teachers in England aNASUWT, the largest teachers' union.

98 per cent of teachers were deeply angry about the Coalition Government's proposals to change teachers' and other public service workers' pensions. The overwhelming majority were prepared to take strike action should the Coalition Government proceed with its proposals.

I'm in the ATL a union noted for it's no strike history.

mrz · 21/05/2011 11:06

Chris Keates, General Secretary of the NASUWT, said:

"This is a staggeringly high response, which in itself illustrates the intense anger the Coalition's proposals have generated. "This survey is a clear warning to Coalition ministers.

"On the basis of this, I have written to the Chief Secretary to the Treasury, Danny Alexander, lodging a formal dispute over pensions.

"I have warned him that, should the Coalition Government either fail to take seriously the concerns of teachers or fail to use the negotiations with the TUC genuinely and seriously to seek an agreed outcome, then the overwhelming support for industrial action among NASUWT members will be translated into reality with inevitable widespread disruption.

COCKadoodledooo · 21/05/2011 11:13

Dh doesn't want to strike. He actually has a pension for the first time in something like 8 years, so he's happy to stick with it whether it's averaged or final salary tbh!

rainbowinthesky · 21/05/2011 11:16

I did base my statement that the NUT was the biggest union on nothing but a guess!

I got a letter yesterday from NASUWT saying they were going to wait until after negotiations before doing any strikes and so wont be joining with proposed strike by other unions on June 30th.

jenga079 · 21/05/2011 11:25

flying, I never suggested teachers work 'all' through their holidays. I certainly don't. But I do spend a hell of a lot of time in school, marking or planning during them. I'm actually not complaining. I love teaching and I do the work because I care about the kids. I agree that our hours are shorter than many careers. I also moved from a different profession and count myself liucky that at least as a teacher i can manage my own work-life balance. However, i earn half as much as a teacher as i did in my precious career and was counting on the pension to make my retirement 'comfortable'. My point is that - like a lot of people on here - I think a strike will be counter productive without some decent PR and careful media messaging.

bitsyandbetty · 21/05/2011 11:44

It would be useful for the unions to do some market research on non-union members. I was involved in a bitter dispute over pensions 7 years ago. The Company could not afford the new contributions that the actuaries had calculated in the valuation. They proposed that a new DC scheme was introduced. The union persuaded the membership to go on strike to stop these proposals. The Company backed down and one year later, the contributions had forced the company into insolvency. The employees lost their jobs and their pensions. Meanwhile the union leaders were still employed and just moved on to their next cause. Since then no other company has backed down because of shareholder responsibility.

My company is now paying additional money that it cannot afford every year for previous employees at the expense of pay freezes and redundancies for the current workforce. The analogy I would put on this is that if the additional cost and risk of longevity is shared final salary schemes could continue but I foresee a future for my kids like the current employees of our company who will be paying tax to fund the pensions of former workers when they will not receive anything like this and will have paid for their own degrees, not be on the housing market and be forced to retire even later than 68. If anyone on here truly believes that final salary pensions can continue without additional employee contributions they should get the unions to talk to actuaries to prove they are doing something that is right for future generations. If a top actuary supported the unions, and led the communication this may give more weight to the argument.

bitsyandbetty · 21/05/2011 11:46

By the way the TUC is using teachers as a barometer because the police and armed forces are not allowed to strike.

gordongrumblebum · 21/05/2011 13:09

One thing made clear at the atl meeting was that everyone must vote to show that we have had a democratic ballot. If only 10% respond then the media will have a field day.
Did anyone sign a petition about this? Apparently 15000 signatures (!) were presented to the pm. Something that passed me by, which worries me about the union's publicity machine.

noblegiraffe · 21/05/2011 14:35

Oh for goodness sake, all this talk about shop workers and warehouse managers who have to work into old age for peanuts. Teachers educate the next generation. Investment in good teachers is an investment in the future of this country. You pay peanuts, you get monkeys. And who wants a monkey teaching their child?

As a workforce, we have one of the most important jobs in the country. That should be valued.

And all these people saying that we have it cushy - feel free to join us at the chalkface. If not, why not?