Teachers - are you voting yes for strike action

[sandgrounder]

Went to NUT meeting at school yesterday re pension reform. Cannot see myself teaching until 68 and who wants their kids taught by oldies not wanting to be there.

The contribution for employers is 14.1 % currently ,cannot remember what % the teachers pay.The scheme is an unfunded scheme that means that what you get out is unrelated to what you pay in.It is also open to manipulation at the moment with some teachers making sure that allowances are all pensionable in their final years to boost their last 3 years pay and non pensionable in the early years to boost take home pay.The private sector just don't have this leeway .

I deal with the TPS all the time,I understand teachers frustration with the changes to what they perceived to be a given ,however I think most of them have no idea how generous the scheme is in comparison to what a private sector employee could hope to receive ever for the same level of contributions .even after these changes most teachers will still have a pension which far exceeds anything DH or I could ever hope to achieve.

I hear the argument about taking a lower salary to get the higher pension but the sums do not add up ,even if a teacher earned 3 times the average top of the teachers pay scale in a private sector career they still would have no hope of getting a pension this generous .

I think if they strike they will get very little sympathy outside the public sector because most of us are wondering whether we will actually have a pension let alone a final salary scheme

gordon - I wasn't having a go at you, just a sentence you quoted. I thought your post was very measured and balanced. I wish more people had the ability to see both sides.

You also need to understand that most teachers in the classroom have a maximum potential earning of about £40K (primary). This level of salary does not lead to massive pensions. We do not have the earning potential that exists in many private businesses.

However, the pension problem was a ticking time bomb due to the significant number of teachers due to retire in the next 10 years.

But in the private sector that level of salary realistically at the moment means no pensionand I am not joking

My dh pension in the private sector is on final salary and on a par with mine (although he earns less than me).
Also, earners in the private sector generally buy into private pension schemes, as most company schemes are defunct.

Join the private sector club. My DF still working at 70.

But on £40k the maximum you could put in would be 20% (if you could afford that level most people pay 5% ,to be frank on a defined benefit scheme most of that would be eaten up by charges.Private pension schemes are expensive and on that level of salary few could afford anything other than their company scheme.Your dh is very very lucky if he is still in a final salary scheme ,there are very few of these left ,I don't know anyone in the private sector who is still in one.Even those that are are having their benefits limited.

My DF as parent governor was asked to give approval to increase a HT's salary in his final year to maximise his pension. Disgusting. These are the errors that are now creating the problems and the high level of early retirements that were paid out too much. There will be no sympathy from the private sector and many parents who will not be able to retire at all without final salary pensions. Final salary schemes were set up when the average was much lower than the 89 for women today. It is a fact of life that women are living longer. Longevity is a blank cheque that cannot really be budgeted for.

£40k is higher than in most private companies. Really, where is your evidence for this? You will just annoy private sector employees by quoting statistics life that. Many have not had a pay rise for 3 years (My DH), 2 years for my firm.

I undertand that teachers in primary may be limited to 40K but even if you earned 120K ,in a defined benefit scheme you would be lucky to achieve the level of pension that a teacher gets in the final salary scheme in todays market

I have a company pension (frozen) from my previous private sector career which predicts the same pension when I retire as my teacher's pension although I contribute a fraction of what I have paid into the TPS

Sorry meant defined contribution scheme

Most of us do not and will never earn 40k!

And many teachers won't. I said that it is maximum earning potential for a classroom teacher. For instance, if I were to go into m+S head office as a graduate, I may earn the same as an NQT (around £21K). The M+S graduate will have the opportunity to rise through the ranks to a high earning potential. The NQT (if s/he wants to remain a classroom teacher) can only aspire to add £19K to the starting salary, in order to become part of the middle management of the school on the senior leadership team. S/he could go no further without sacrificing part of the classroom teaching part of the job.

Website link showing how well teachers starting salary compares to other professions.

www.tda.gov.uk/get-into-teaching/salary/starting-salary.aspx

Didn't get any comparisons, but did google and find that solicitors start on a good deal more than £21K and even social workers start on £23K. M+S starting salaries are £24K (for the record!).

Pension is part of overall remuneration so if your pension scheme is reduced, so has your pay. It is a pay cut.

The question whether or not to strike is a tactical one.

I am not a teacher, and would hate to have to make this decision.

A pension cut is indeed a pay cut.
I do think though that teachers ought to box very clever here...and running into strike action aint remotely clever.

First, you need to get the public on your side, and at the moment that's not the case. You need to ask the public whether they really want the reality of old teachers in the classroom...not as an exception, but as a rule.

Then you need to tackle the issue.

HarrietJones - you're fine. Once you've left your scheme completely, your pension is protected by law and must go up by at least inflation. Until the point you retire, they can change it (so a working teacher with 30 years service can have their existing pension changed while they're working, but their colleague who retired last week has protection)

Phew- thanks! There's an incentive not to let him go back

Why wouldn't we want 68 year old teachers?

I'm still not clear of all the fats on the pension changes. But, it seems teachers have a pretty cushy pension package. So, I must admit, as a parent, I am not particularly sympathetic at this point.

I have also heard that teachers get a very generous maternity package. Is this true? Do teachers get more than SMP (6 weeks of 90% + some £107 or something per week).

Incidentally, my private sector DH does not get a pension at all. Not one penny!

Friend has just gone back at 6 months cos she only got stat maternity pay.
Dh was only entitle to stat paternity pay too but they would have been needed on call as the only CPO.

I too don't understand why we wouldn't want 68 year old teachers? My parents are both around that age, still full of life and vitality, too poor to retire but enjoying running their own businesses. Its how I want to be in my late 60's. That still means 20 years or so of retirement...?

Does this affect independent school teachers, or do they have a different system?