Teachers - are you voting yes for strike action

[sandgrounder]

Went to NUT meeting at school yesterday re pension reform. Cannot see myself teaching until 68 and who wants their kids taught by oldies not wanting to be there.

Really? You really thought that?

I did acknowledge above that if there is an issue with teacher's wages it is at the other end of the payscale, for those teachers who want to remain in the classroom.

Mrz, I realise that BUT to be able to analyse the assertion
'teaching is the lowest paid graduate only profession'
then you need a selection of graduate-only professions to compare it with.

As any data on pay of nurses will not contain purely those who are graduates, it is not possible to use this data for comparative purposes. It is the same with the other examples you gave - the presence of non-graduates within each job type / profession makes the 'graduate only profession' comparison impossible.

Hence my wish to see an 'all graduates' comparison - which from the data I have been able to source so far indicates that teaching is relatively well-paid in the early years after graduating. I appreciate this may not be the case throughout a career - still seeking data!

Okay, desperatelyseekingsnoozes. Tbh, pay hasn't been an issue - until I was faced with dropping £200 a month.

Yes I did think that! I did work longish hours previously and wanted a different way of life. I spoke to other teachers, most of whom assured me that only those with time management issues worked long hours.

Teaching has pushed my very strong marriage to its limit. During term time my husband has had to turn down work so that I can carry on.

if we have another child I probably will give up teaching for a good five years or so and then it may not be worth returning.

I'm SMT and teach 5 days

Compare it with trainee Aldi managers who start at £40K

of course there is the possibility that I am crap at managing my time!

Aldi managers are not paid by the taxpayer.

teacherwith2kids wanted to compare with private sector graduates

Sorry I miised that bit.

I don't think it is right to compare private and public sector.

I work in 6th form where it's much harder to progress. In fact, it's incredibly frustrating in that we have a HOD of a big dept who is not shifting until she retires. She's quite a lot weaker than the people below her. This would be one really big disadvantage of increasing the retirement age: more people who need to leave to make way for fresher people but can't. I also think as with every other job women lose out when they have children. It's money much more than hours for me. I know teachers work long hours but I think all things considered not more than other jobs and at least I find I can fit it in around family life so I work part-time school hours and then start marking after 7 pm when the kids are in bed and odd bits at weekends and holidays around dp who is also a teacher.

You seem to have changed your mind

Bloody marking. There's nothing like it. Hours and hours of drudgery but it's one thing you could never delegate. And the only thing that I think doesn't really get better.

Who has changed their mind?

sorry I shouldn't multi task it wasn't meant for this thread or even this site

Then you move to somewhere where you can progress. That's the way it is in all organisations. It's why my DH has had more jobs than me (well, that and the job insecurity in his industry).

And if you have a HoD who is not up to the job, then your SLT need to address that, rather than just waiting for her to retire.

You must be joking on both counts. There are no jobs at the moment in 6th forms. My HOD is not incompetent so nothing to be done.

I would say the majority of promotions in teaching are internal so if there's no movement where you are it's very difficult.

Then you move into another education sector. A challenging school like mine for example where progression is rapid if you are up to the job (and if you aren't, then you are out!). I don't think it's unreasonable to have to move, and change your expectations, in order to make progress in your career. Most people I know in a professional job have had to be flexible. And those that weren't willing (for whatever reason, some very sensible) have usually taken a progression hit.

I wouldn't necessarily agree with the internal promotion point. I think possibly in certain schools, but we have just made a number of external appointments, including head of a core subject and second in another.

I work in a 6th form college. I'm happy there. Right now there are no jobs across the whole country which would be a promotion for me but there's a big shortage of jobs at all levels in most schools and colleges right now. Most middle management/senior management jobs in schools and colleges local to me have been internal or even where advertised externally have gone to the internal candidate even at the most senior level.

In fact there are widescale redundancies nationally.

Mrz, no, I wanted to compare:

Graduate teachers' pay and conditions with
All graduate pay and conditions

in order to explore this idea that 'teachers are the lowest paid graduate profession'. I think we had established that the basis for 'graduate-only profession' comparisons is very tiny, because there are virtually no others, and all except pharmacy (medicine, dentistry, vets) require significant postgraduate study.

Hence my wish to compare teaching salaries with other graduate salaries at different points in a career - not the highest, but the median. So far I have managed to find out that up to 3.5 years into their career, teachers are paid above the median graduate salary, to which others have responded (without, so far, statistical data on median pay) that the problem lies further into a teaching career.

The salary paid on a single example of a graduate training scheme is neither here nor there. There are always 'outliers', which is whyI have been looking at medians.