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Education

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Teachers - are you voting yes for strike action

681 replies

sandgrounder · 18/05/2011 18:16

Went to NUT meeting at school yesterday re pension reform. Cannot see myself teaching until 68 and who wants their kids taught by oldies not wanting to be there.

OP posts:
MrsGuyOfGisbourne · 01/06/2011 18:12

If that is the case MmB is very welcome Grin, as she appears to be a realist among ostriches...

MrsGuyOfGisbourne · 01/06/2011 18:13

sorry, not clear - i mean she is a realist, surrounded on all sides by ostriches.

mrz · 01/06/2011 18:14

I thought more of a cuckoo in that cloudy land of hers Smile

MrsGuyOfGisbourne · 01/06/2011 18:15

And I M happy for my school fees to go to the pensions of the teachers in our school - they do an outstanding job - but don't see why we should subsidise other teachers specifically out of those fees - our taxes cover that.

mrz · 01/06/2011 18:17

I don't imagine for a moment your school fees are subsidising anyone other than your school. It's a great excuse to increase fees even if the pension increase doesn't come into effect for 12 months Smile

MmeBlueberry · 01/06/2011 18:55

Neither taxpayers, nor fee payers (obviously a subset) should pay for the TPS shortfall. This should be borne by the beneficiaries.

mrz · 01/06/2011 19:00

which is why we are paying 50% higher contributions for longer MmeB Smile unless you are working in the school where MrsGofGs children attend and the parents are paying increased fees Smile

MmeBlueberry · 01/06/2011 19:02

I don't understand what you are saying.

teacherwith2kids · 01/06/2011 19:03

I apologise for not reading every single ontribution over the last many pages.

I have just resigned from my union (losing part of my subscription) and transferred to one which is not holding a strike ballot, purely because I disagree with the idea of teachers striking over this issue.

How can I possibly look parents in the eye, parents who I know are unemployed or hold multiple casual or minimum wage jobs just to keep a roof over their heads let alone put anything away for retirement and say 'ah, yes, I know that I have a job and you don't, but I have to protect my pension, don't you know. Sorry, yes, I know that you having to miss a day of work to look after your children while I strike will give your employer another reason to make your employment even more precarious, but it's all about my future'??

Also, with a husband who has worked in the private sector throughout his working life, and with a background in the private sector myself, I know that the teachers' pension, even in its modified form, is an extraordinarily good, safe deal. My husband pays in a vastly higher percentage of his wages, only part of which is matched by his employer, and his final payout is linked to the performance of a stagnant stock market with no guarantees whatever. Yes, a minority of private sector pensions were gold plated in the past, but those have disappeared and for the vast majority, especially those who through necessity have changed jobs, the outlook is bleak and is much less certain than the teachers pension deal.

My husband and I have both assumed that we will work at least until 70. My dad still works at 73 and tbh appears a much younger, more sprightly and connected man than any of his contemporaries who have retired.

mrz · 01/06/2011 19:06

I realise that MmeB Smile

MmeBlueberry · 01/06/2011 19:09

Great post, teacher with 2 kids.

MrsGuyOfGisbourne · 01/06/2011 19:12

well said TWTK I also assume I will just keep on working - just doing different jobs, as long as am able-bodied enough to do something - just like all previous generations except the last two.

Cain · 01/06/2011 19:16

Thats a well thought out and intelligent post. I do hope the majority of teachers think as clearly as you do.

MmeBlueberry · 01/06/2011 19:17

Indeed.

I am not afraid of working as an elderly person. I don't have a lot of role models within my family, but I am very impressed with my 60+ colleagues, all of whom are both energetic and sharp-witted. And wise.

goinnowhere · 01/06/2011 19:18

I think the majority do. I know very few who would feel happy about striking, and also am not hearing too many rumblings about pension changes. Most people I know would like a bit more respect and support more than anything else.

mrz · 01/06/2011 19:24

I don't have a lot of role models either
my husband dropped dead at 30 and both my parents developed cancer in their 50s and didn't live to draw their pensions ... perhaps I'll be around for mine Smile
teachers currently live approximately 18 years after retiring so who know

MmeBlueberry · 01/06/2011 19:26

Sorry to hear that, mrz.

mrz · 01/06/2011 19:28

Why MmeB it saved lots of tax payers money

teacherwith2kids · 01/06/2011 19:59

The last few posts have reminded me of another point I wanted to make. One of the reasons that pensions of all kinds have become less affordable (for the public purse and private companies alike) is increased longevity post retirement. The increase in retirement age has lagged way behind this increased length of life.

Perhaps a model in which rather than saying 'WHAT, I have to teach until I'm 68, 3 years longer than I was expecting???' to 'I am likely to be retired and drawing a pension for at least 10 / 20 / 30 years [all of my grandparents lived to over 90, so 30 years is statistically quite possible even if I stop work at 70] and thus will be drawing money for significantly more years than the pensions system was ever designed for' might give us all a bit of perspective.

Cain · 01/06/2011 20:01

goinnowhereWed 01-Jun-11 19:18:51

I think the majority do. I know very few who would feel happy about striking, and also am not hearing too many rumblings about pension changes. Most people I know would like a bit more respect and support more than anything else.

I hadn't got that from this thread, the most vociferous if not intellectual, seems to suggest the opposite.

If you are right, it feels good to have got teachers wrong. And I do respect and support the ones I know both personally and as a parent, very much so.

TotallyUtterlyDesperate · 01/06/2011 20:30

It's all very well saying you are happy to work until you are 70. A few years ago, I would have said that myself as I love my job. But you can never assume that your health will stay robust. I'm now in my mid-50s and am having to comtemplate the awful truth that I might be forced to take early retirement in the near future because my health has totally broken down over the last 5 years or so. I can barely drag myself into work each day and I fear that, however much I might want to carry on, I will soon lose my job through no fault of my own. So, although I might love the idea of working until my late 60s or early 70s, there is virtually no chance that I will be able to. I might still live until my 90s - but in terribly poor health.

And before anyone says anything negative, I don't drink or smoke and have tried to keep fit. The stress of having a disabled DH and DS1 has worn me down and I am barely able to function. :(

MmeBlueberry · 01/06/2011 22:19

TUD,

I don't think becoming unwell is restricted to teaching.

TotallyUtterlyDesperate · 02/06/2011 10:46

MmeBlueberry, I didn't say it was! I'm not a teacher, although DH was. I was answering, probably a bit late, a poster above who was talking about working until your 70s.

teacherwith2kids · 02/06/2011 13:45

TUD,

I appreciate that it may not be possible to work until our 70s. And being prudent people, nothing in our financial planning (DH paying over and above into his pension, assorted insurances, mortgage etc) relies on us doing so, as we are well aware that illness or disability may strike.

The point I was making was that we do not have an expectation that we will retire at 65 into an instantly comfortable lifestyle, and that if either or both of us are fit and able to we expect to work well past that age. Hence I feel absolutely no sense of outrage or 'entitlement removed unfairly' when I am informed that my retirement age if I remain a teacher is likely to be 68.

My grandfather, unusually for his generation, drew his pension for longer than he worked. As more and more of us live longer, that is quite likely to become more of a norm than an exception - and no system of pensions can support that.

fivecandles · 02/06/2011 13:57

Well, this Govt must be delighted to have so many pliant and ignorant people who are prepared to swallow their rhetoric without question.

Once again, the teachers' pension scheme is self-sustaining. You are not being asked to pay more money so that your pensions can be afforded (because they already can) you are being asked to pay more money so the Govt can fund OTHER projects for example, bombing Libya, bankers' bonuses and MPs' expenses.

If you are happy with this situation then fair enough but please don't say that we need to pay more money so that our pensions can be afforded when they already can.

You also need to think a little bit more widely about teachers working until they're 68. Of course teachers should be able to work until they're 68 if they're competent and want to but can you really not see the disadvantages to teachers, their pupils and colleagues and potential teachers looking for a job of teachers being FORCED to remain teaching until they're 68??