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Original poster

Teachers -AIBU?

57 replies

Minx179 · 09/05/2011 23:35

In expecting DS's teachers not to cheat help him in his GCSE's coursework/exams?

Is unreasonable 'help' ever justified and is it fair on him and the other children who don't get this level of 'help'

OP posts:
tethersend · 09/05/2011 23:38

Can you give examples?

Gooseberrybushes · 09/05/2011 23:41

Why d you think grades are up - it happens.

AnnieBesant · 09/05/2011 23:41

It's a minefield. Roll on controlled assessments!

tethersend · 10/05/2011 00:04

It depends though- some people see access arrangements as 'help'. Need examples.

Original poster
Minx179 · 10/05/2011 00:09

A TA took DS out of class last week to write an essay, which should have been completed before Christmas (we weren't made aware he was behind). She wrote some notes out, DS copied them, she also told him what to write, this is not the first time DS has informed me that the TA is telling him what to write, nor is it the only lesson this is occurring in.

We received some feedback from one teacher giving an example of a 'good' sentence DS had written. As soon as he read it DS said 'I didn't write (type) that bit'. The bit he said he hadn't done was not grammatically correct, but it did enhance the whole sentence. If you didn't know him, how he thinks, you would not be aware that the additional bit does not reflect how he thinks.

I have contacted the school; not the first time along similar lines.

As DS types his coursework/exams, it is easily alterable, but it hacks me off considerably as it has happened with every single set of key stage tests. Why I think his GCSE's should be any different, I don't know, but I am fed up with him moving into next key stage(s) to find he could never have achieved that grade, only for it to happen again.

OP posts:
gingeroots · 10/05/2011 08:33

Agree it's wrong to help to this extent ,and no doubt controlled assessments will be dealt with in the same way .
What really hacks me off is that time is focussed on a small group of students ,leaving middle of the road ,quiet types like my DS to go on struggling .
But I think league tables are to blame .

ElsieR · 10/05/2011 08:48

YANBU I know lots of people who cheat give far too much help. Sometimes it's because they have not read the syllabuses properly (they change very often, it's hard to keep up !) or because they are under pressure with their performance management targets.
Maybe the TA was not trained properly either. I think it's appalling because after that you have kids who have over inflated GCSE grades and are going to struggle at A Level.

breatheslowly · 10/05/2011 09:16

Yes it's wrong, but if one does it then the others all feel they have to or they disadvantage their pupils as it is a national competition. I went on a coursework training course for an A-level which was run by the chief coursework examiner. She said that all of her pupils get A grades in their coursework, even if they can't pass a single exam. It was like paint-by-numbers. They have now got rid of coursework in that subject.

scaryteacher · 10/05/2011 09:39

Inform the exam board then and give the name of the school, and also approach the Head.

IndigoBell · 10/05/2011 09:42

No, most of you are missing the point. (And gingeroots is missing it most spectacularly)

(From previous posts I know that) This is not a kid who is going to study A levels.

This is the difference between a G grade and a D grade.

They are cheating because they refuse to admit how badly they have failed him.

They are cheating.

It is never acceptable to cheat.

But it is far easier for the school to cheat than to either teach him, or to admit that they can't teach him.

This isn't one badly trained TA - because it is happening consistently by several TAs.

There is nothing in any access arrangements that says you can tell a student what to write.

Minx - I'm really sorry that nothing ever get's sorted for you and your DS. The lengths to which schools go to cheat - even when it is blindingly obvious - is breathtaking. :(

IndigoBell · 10/05/2011 09:45

Actually - it's not the lengths schools go to cheat - which is breathtaking. That is obvious. Reward and punishment type stuff. There is a reason why they cheat.

What I don't get is the lengths they go to to avoid telling the truth to a parent. :(

Even when there would be no negative consequence for telling the truth they just refuse to ever admit that a child is not making progress.

Can any teacher or SENCO tell me why schools never admit that a child is not making progress?

tethersend · 10/05/2011 09:50

I have never worked in a school which cheats (and yes, this sounds exactly like cheating; follow scaryteacher's advice). These are not access arrangements; thanks for clarifying, OP.

I have also had many conversations with parents and carers about their children not making progress. So 'never' is wrong, I'm afraid, IndigoBell. I can believe that it happens a lot, though.

LynetteScavo72 · 10/05/2011 10:01

Good TAs and LSTs are worth their weight in gold, but in I have seen this happen in too many cases. Often the TA doesn't really understand their role or have adequate subject/pedagogical knowledge to be "helping" the child with c/w - what you really want as a teacher/parent is for them to stand over the child and just bloody well make sure they do their poxy c/w! If they need help they need to see the actual teacher. Believe it or not, overly "scaffolded" c/w set/supervised by an inexperienced member of staff can often disadvantage a child in certain subjects.

I would be annoyed too if as a parent I wasn't given the chance to get my child to catch up before this happened, though I do know that not all parents are as helpful as you!

C/W like this shouldn't get through the school's moderation process and in my experience usually gets picked up and dealt with, but as a parent I should get onto the school and let them sort it out sooner rather than later. Contacting the exam board should be a last resort as it may backfire and lose your own child marks, but if you really feel you have exhausted all other avenues at the school (and don't forget the Local Education Authority) then I fear eventually, as a responsible parent, you may have no choice...

Thank goodness it's all going!

IndigoBell · 10/05/2011 10:02

Sorry - I shouldn't have said never. :)

But it does happen an awful lot - and I don't know why. Except that:

a) it's a hard conversation to have and
b) if you admit there's a problem they'll have to do something about it.....

Minx - inform the exam board. You've already discussed it with school enough times....

gingeroots · 10/05/2011 10:05

Indigobell - you obviously know more about Minx's DC and the details of this situation than I do - so less of the gingerroots spectacularly missing the point thanks .

Completely agree with your last post - long experience of teachers and senco's never admitting DS not making progress ,subject teacher telling me at parents evening - " XXX highest IQ in class ,constantly amazed by depth of understanding which is much better than YYYY's who is just an exam machine .." but nada offered in helping DC translate his intelligence and understanding into exam results .
And I now have a DS sitting at home having dropped out weeks before his A2 modules because he can't take failing any longer .

Do I resent his science subject teachers being pulled out of teaching their A level classes to cover GCSE classes and boost those grades ,no doubt freeing the GCSE teachers to give more individual time to students ?
Do I wish someone had taken my DS aside to give him one to one on exam technique ?
Of course I do .

Gooseberrybushes · 10/05/2011 10:11

Indigo is correct in saying: they cheat because they have failed them.

Not only the teachers but the entire system. It's a lot of work for the child, it feels like a lot of work for them, it's a heavy work load for the teachers, but does it actually result in any extra information transferred and learned? No. A higher grade, no extra learning.

IndigoBell · 10/05/2011 10:14

Ginger But they didn't take Minx's DS out for exam technique - they took him out and dictated his course work to him.

And if your child is failing then he is not 'middle of the road' as you first said.

I'm sorry that your child too has been failed by inadequate SEN provision. But being jealous of other children having help doesn't seem right either....

gingeroots · 10/05/2011 10:31

At GCSE level I would say that he was middle of the road ,he's done better since concentrating on 3 subjects .
Sorry if I come across as jealous - it's truly not that ,just huge anger with the way the system doesn't work .
Thank you for your kind words .

ElsieR · 10/05/2011 10:37

Can I point out that sometimes if the kids do not make progress it's because they do not act on teacher's advice or/and do not work hard enough. It is not always the teacher's fault.

MinnieEggs · 10/05/2011 10:41

YANBU

IndigoBell · 10/05/2011 10:46

Elsie - if failing to make progress is not the teacher's fault, then they should have no problem saying that the child was not making progress, and this is what the teacher has tried, and this is why it hasn't worked.....

From reading this board for a year, and from my own experiences, it seems that:

  • most kids with SEN are badly failed by 'the system'
  • most teachers think that it is not them who are failing the kids.
  • most schools will not admit they are failing their SEN kids.
  • most some teachers even think that most SEN kids are not being failed.
  • lots of parents without SEN kids really, really don't get how badly SEN kids are being failed.
ElsieR · 10/05/2011 10:54

Yes exactly Indigo I have never had a problem saying it. Some people had a problem hearing though.
The issue for SEN is the dire lack of funding. It is shocking to see how under resourced some SEN departments are. The schools I have worked in had amazing SENCOs and did the very best they could with what they had.
And it was good. I can imagine that if the SENCO is crap, the provision would suffer even more.

gingeroots · 10/05/2011 11:05

I'm just going to add that I worked for 7 years as a LSA for a child with Downs syndrome .
It was at a high achieving Church school who really ,really didn't want him there - or me either . My paying to go on courses myself and buying resources because the school wouldn't, made me part of the " problem ".

I am much more familiar than I would like to be with both teachers ( HeadT mainly ) and parents being jealous of a child getting ( in their eyes ) more attention than their own .

And the prejudice was shocking - they even tried to make the child sit on a specially marked ( old and tatty ) chair to avoid the chance of other children sitting on the same chair and " CATCHING SOMETHING " !!!

And for the record ,although they hardly needed to ,yes the school cheated - opening SATA papers early and doing a quick run through ,heavy hints during the SATS and ammending the teacher asessed bit ( under pressure from HT ).

gingeroots · 10/05/2011 11:07

SATA = SATS

ElsieR · 10/05/2011 11:08

That's disgusting. Lovely Christian feelings there then...

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