Difference in fees

[tryingtoimprove]

I'm currently looking at prep schools, and am shocked at the range of prices
£2,000-£9,500 per term.

Now some things are obvious i.e. one school has no grounds to speak of, so go elsewhere for games, others have very flash facilities.

But am I being wrong to think £2,000 school can't be good with offering the best teachers/specialist skills etc, whilst £9,500 I'm paying for the best teachers to have the best cars.

Does anyone else have any logic they apply to fees, or do you effectively "ignore" the fees until the last moment, when having decided everything else is right for you. Or do you choose a school on fees first, then hope it ticks all the other boxes?

I'll post on this tomorrow (remind me!) - too angry tonight at having to find private school fees for our second DC, now that she too has been denied a place in a state school that isn't failing (same thing happened to DS).

But essentially - a £2k school can be good, but the main difference from a good state primary will be the class sizes, nothing more. However, when you reduce the class size from 30 to 20 or even 15, it suddenly means that everything is so much more accessible to each child - individual time with the teacher, computer time, sports/music equipment etc...

There's a world of difference between the £9k prep schools and the £2k private schools. Best to go and have a look and get a feel for the place.

I will post more tomorrow if you need me to.

Firstly, as I'm sure you know, the fees often vary according to the year group. So pre-prep is often quite a bit cheaper than prep. Sometimes the fees then go up gradually in prep according to year group. The other thing that in my experience influences fees is the size of the school and the facilities and the number of members of staff.

Personally I would look at the schools and make an initial judgement on the feel of the school, the head, the facilities etc etc and then look at the fees.

It is also worth looking at the accounts for a school, some have good reserves, others are struggling on this front and therefore will need to keep raising fees and/or increasing numbers if they want to put money aside for improvements.

Lastly I would expect very high fees to also be linked to number of scholarships to top schools moving forward.

Yes please - I need help persuading dh that the £4,500 prep school is worth the extra money over the £2k one.

At the moment he's saying £2k one is fantastic price, and to take that. He's then asking me why £4,5k is good enough and why don't i need the £9k one!

Sorry to hear about missing out on the place.

Some private schools have much larger class sizes than others which has a big impact of fees per pupil. Some have old buildings which are expensive to heat and maintain. Some include books and exam fees others dont. Some give big sibling and militry discounts which have to be paid for by other parents.

Yes re the year group - I've adjusted for that, so that all the schools are being compared on yr3-6.

Noticeably the cheaper ones don't go to yr 8 whilst the more expensive ones do, so if we want to go to top independent senior, we'd have to move for yr 7-8.

But it would work out financially better to do yr3-6 cheaply then yr7-8 pricey, but would that be detrimental?

Good point re looking at accounts I've looked at some accounts (not all) and they are such a variety, one that has lower fees, and rundown facilities has lots of money in account and little borrowing, whilst one with flash facilities, and high fees has lots of debt, so not too sure how they are going to manage this in the future.

Interesting differences - in my area there isnt that much of a difference even though the schools themselves are very different. Are they all in the same geographical area?

Look at the results - where the leavers go - if all the 2k leavers go where you want and achieve what you want in terms of sport and music etc then it's fine.

If you can afford it I wouldn't move for year 7 - it's an added disruption and very often prep schools start CE preparation in year 6 so there would be catching up to do (not that that's impossible, of course).

If I were you I would select largely on class size and extra-curricular provision: I.e. If your child is very sporty then a school with tiny grounds and a coach trip to the playing fields is less desirable than one with loads of pitches and green space on-site. Similarly, if your child has an aptitude for music, somewhere with good facilities and a string musical reputation is important.

Schools that stop at the end of yr 6 often feed into particular local secondaries, so it might be worth looking at leavers' destinations; depending on the variety of schools in your area, a school that goes up to yr 8 might be better, especially if you'd consider boarding.

Sorry, if you'd consider boarding for senior school, I mean.

LizardInvasion was much more succinct!

This is 5 schools all in a relatively rural 15 mile radius.

One £2k, 2 £4,5k, 1 £5,5k, 1 £6,250, 1 £9,5k

I need to check leavers' destinations.

2 schools are yr 6 £2k, £4,5k
1 school is yr 11 £5,5k
1 school is yr 13 £6,250k
2 schools are yr 8 £4,5k, £9,5k

Sorry meant (6) schools not 5 in previous post.

Ideally I'd like an all rounder school - as dc are good at all aspects (academic/music/sport) but don't excel in one particular area.

Yes forgot to mention about year 7 and 8. If you move them in year 6 (assuming you are staying private) the fees will potentially go up loads, so you need to balance this out.

Looking at where the children move on to is very important IMO. For example if you DCs are academic or sporty or muscial do you think that they could get a scholarship? If so it would be worth investing now in a very good school. OK it might not pay off however it might save you lots in the long run! Also some prep schools offer scholarships (with or without financial award) and this may also help in your decision if you believe your DCs could get offered one. I do believe it is worth considering when looking at schools especially if you end up falling in love with the really expensive one!

I am [cshock] at £9k prep fees - or is that a boarding price?

You do need to try to compare like with like - are lunches compulsory and included in the price? Trips? All books/stationery etc? How expensive is the uniform? What activities are billed as extras and how much? Do they charge for after school care/ late pick up?

If the school finishes at yr6, will it be geared to 11+ and how does that fit with your plans if you are considering CE? Are you happy with the range/type of destination schools for leavers? Does it have full specialist subject teaching from say yr3 (tends to be more expensive), and are you happy with the level of qualifications of the staff?

Is the cheaper school part of a chain/group (Cognita, say, or GDST)? Or if free-standing, is it well established and not likely to go bust?

Are those fees for boarding, day ??? My DD's senior school was just under the 10K per term (full boarding - I gather the fees for her ex school will probably hit over 10K per term in september 2011) - my DS's is about 6.5K per term, boarding ( but DS is flexi boarding and comes home 3 nights a week). (9 K per term is a bit steep for prep IMO) Prep day shcool for both of them was about 1.5K per term, but I gather this has now risen to 2.5K per term.

Mind you (and I expect to be flamed for this) you get what you pay for in independent schools - natch my DC & their achievements to date ....... (I'm standing back with fire extinguisher poised)

No unfortunately that £9k is day price, although boarding is not much more - as they are encouraging boarders rather than day.

Thanks for all your posts - lots of questions for me to research/ask.

I've made appointments to view three of the schools with dh to see what we think.

They are all free-standing - 50/50 split as to whether limited company/charity status. The most "modern" of the 6 is 1920s so no new schools.

9K a term for prep Day!!!!! What school is this??? DD's ex school is a top 5 school and that was just under 30K per year for senior full boarders (3 terms at just under 9K per term) when she was there (2 years ago) !!!!! I can't think of any prep that charges those kind of fees.

Are you talking per TERM or per YEAR???????

Think even Xenia would think that £9k per term is a lot!!!

Ds went to a mega cheap one, they had no kitchen (so packed lunch every day), no sports facilities, the world's smallest playround, no after school clubs but he was happy and they could stretch him academically. It depends on what you're looking for.

Beware of schools with high debts. DD's school, where she had been from the age of 3 until 15, was first put into administration then closed last summer. She was devastated as were her friends. She's settled into another school and now working for her exams but it was a highly traumatic event in her life.

Please tell us which prep school is charging 9500 per term for a day place!

Bloody hell. The school DD went to for primary has fees just over £2K per term now, its gets the best results in the county, class sizes ~12-18, and is a lovely well equipped school (nursery-yr6, nowhere near us does CE)

So £2K can be good ... glad I don't live in the South!

Fortunately you can have a good look at the schools' accounts and see exactly where the cash is going.
See if you thik each school gives VFM.

Then ask yourself what matters to you. Do you want small class sizes, teaching assistants on tap, MFL, sports, music, art? What matters most? Which school delivers.

This is why the standard Mumsnet line that certain (all) private schools are a waste of money, is utter bullshit. If you place a value on it, then it is money well spent.

£9.5k for prep school fees? Show me the school before I believe that as this is not even the day fee for the likes of the top public school. The only preps that would ever charge that would be those catering for SLD.

I am curious to know what prep school charged £9500 for day or even boarding for that matter. Ours is nearly £7K (boarding) and I thought that was one of the highest in the country. Are you sure you've read it correctly? You pay more for specialized teachers from an early age - my son has had specialist teahers for French, science, music, art, ict, maths and English from 7yrs old all in their own specialized classrooms/labs. This is essential after yr 4 if you want a good mark at CE. But inevitably it all costs money. Also if you have full boarders (not home at all at weeknds) this often makes a school more expensive because the school has to provide all the back up for this: matrons, teachers, cleaners, cooking staff mini bus drivers etc 7 days a week. More expense for a school.
If your not bothered by the cost put that aspect to one side and just go and look at as many prep schools as possible decide what you want from a school; lots of sport, very pushy, loads of drama, etc. and go along and listen to the head, Ask very specific questions EG if you looking for full boarding ask exactly how many children were in school last Sunday and ask to see the weekend activity list, how many went to your chosen senior school in the last five years this is important the more the better because this indicates an understanding of its entry requirments, can my child actually do both ballet and horse riding etc. etc. Talk to other mothers in the park/ swimming pool/gym and try to get a general feeling for the school you will get mixed opinions that normal. Go and watch a match a listen to the parents on the side of the pitch. Try and discover what the schools ethos is and does it match with yours. For example I can't stand a fussy uniform; blazers, boaters etc and woudn't send my children to a school with one! How much homework do you wany your child to have? Hope this helps.

Just one point to correct you on. Please, please please don't think your fees will buy you the best teachers with specialist skills. I've taught in both private and state schools. What difference, if any in my experience, in the actual teaching skills is biased in favour of teachers in the public sector who tend to have to be innovative on a smaller budget. What you do get for your money is smaller classes and better facilities.

The dragon school in Oxford charges 9k for pre prep and 15k for day prep at 8-13...